posted
Well Raymond... I would start by making a real nice for sale sign.
We sold our business to our son and then gave him a big bonus to pay for it.
Good luck in the sale and I hope you get to do lots of fun stuff afterwards.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ya know it's a stretch, but you could send a email to the sign graphics instructor, Doc Guthrie at the Los Angeles Trade Technical college. Ya never know, some student there might have a rich Uncle.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
the biggest thing you sell.......IS YOUR REPUTATION, #1, 2ndly its the client list, then equipment and property. not knowing what you have as property and equipment, but i do know you have a great reputation for doing excellent work and your clients are probably many and for many years. SO THERE IS YOUR $$$$$. am not telling you anything you dont know, in todays sign business.......no talent is needed just the ability to lease/buy a printer, rent a storefront. NOW YOU IS A SIGN SHOP))) the talents YOU have......arent needed anymore. so your buyer is gona want buy your reputation, client list......and it aint gona be cheap...... if you own the building/shop sell it as you would any real estate.....equipment...get what ya can in todays market.......
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
Selling a "business" is selling your client list and "reputation". But, you can't sell your actual expertise because only you have that expertise.
Selling the inventory and equipment is pretty much black and white, as is the selling of your property. They just depend on current availability/demand.
When I sold out I got 50 times more for the property than I did for the "business".
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
when i left sarasota....1998, i made a deal with a guy to PAY ME FOR MY CLIENT LIST........ i gave it to him(before i got paid)AND NEVER GOT PAID FOR IT!!!!! he said when called asking for the payment we agreed on...he said it was not worth anything......KARMA will get him.......
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
When we sold our business, we just put the word out with friends and suppliers. Good news a couple came in and was interested. Thinking we had a good income and client list with equipment and inventory we could get a good price. The problem is if the buyer has to borrow money, they will only loan on your equipment and inventory. The rest is "blue sky" and isn't worth anything to the bank. We got a good price but had to carrying part of the loan. Knock on wood, they have made payments for 6 years now. Good luck and find someone rich to pay cash.
-------------------- Tom & Kathy Durham House Springs, MO Posts: 654 | From: House Springs, MO | Registered: Apr 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Would you buy a sign shop? If I wanted to go somewhere, why wouldn't I start a shop myself? A shop with regular clientel can sell the customer list, but the new person needs to keep them. I don't have contracts with clients. If they like me or have years of relationship that keeps them feeling obligated, they'd feel released as soon as they found out I was gone. There needs to be more of a hook with this sale, please identify it?
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Rick...I think the "hook", as you call it, is the customer files. In this day and age, even hand rendered signage usually involves computer generated "images". They lend continuity so that future signage will be accurate and consistent.
It is similar to selling a sign business in the past, where the seller would turn over all of the pounce patterns, in order to maintain accuracy.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
iam doing a van for a guy, this week. hes a plumber. his father has an A/C heating business. we when talking the other day here, and he said to me you know your only the 2nd sign person we have ever had??? i started doing his fathers trucks in 1998 when we moved here. we installed a new gas furnace and central air from them, and paid most of it $$$$$ but i told the owner(the plumbers father)i did signs and vehilces. he took a $250 dollar less and said he had a truck needed lettered...and i have had them as clients since then. this van iam doing is in ayment for some plumbing work was done on my bathroom remodle as my health got bad and i had to ask the plumber for a little help with some install work. the only other sign person they had, had passed away a year or so before i got here and his name was MR. UDEN. i never got to met him but somehow i got to met his wife, who was cleaning out the sign shop .......i bought most of the old led based paint, a lot of sign blanks from MDO...and my prized possession......HIS LETTERING BRUSHES AND KIT. POINT BEING.. customers like this are not the clients of today)))
[ January 12, 2017, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
My pounce [patterns are part of my personal history. Most of the business' represented by them are long gone, and the grandkids that own the business' and buildings don't care about the old images.
I do have on file the measurements of walls, windows, and history including past permits for signs on most every commercial property in our community. That has some value.
I remember when phone lists had value. Now that has changed to email and websites. Did you know that it's illegal to solicit using someones email unless you have their permission, and you need to provide an unsubscribe link?
Customer files with digital high quality of their logos still has some value. I can email a mediocre version of a scanned multi color logo out and get back a vector image the next day for $25. So how does that effect the value of all those files?
I have tools that have been part of my history. I have a Kent Smith device for drawing ovals. It was the sweetest thing I had ever seen when I got it. Now I draw it with a plotter. My Super Greyhounds and Harrison fitches are also things from the past and have been replaces for the most part by digital technology. So what is the real value there?
Yes, I'd love to sell my sign business and retire someday, but have trouble imagining who would want to buy it since if it was me looking for a sign business I'd just start one.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
You could look to take on an apprentice that would be interested in ultimately buying out the business.
You could contact all the franchise organizations and see what they would offer you, I get letters from them all the time.
Make sure you start by getting things in order, straighten out everything and get organized, get your financial books in order, inventory and list all the items for sale with the business.
-------------------- Gary Boros SIGNWORKS STUDIOS LLC Monroe, Connecticut, USA Posts: 264 | From: Monroe, Connecticut, USA | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Gary...thanks for the information. Truthfully, I have no interest in taking on an apprentice (been there, done that) and "ultimately" is longer than I have.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
It is a cruel reality in our business. For the younger generation, it is too physically demanding. And frankly, they make more money than we do. This is a struggle with other generational business as well.
The local grocery store owner is experiencing this too,. None of his kids were interested in the store that bought them a college education. He is 59 and staring straight into the eyes of retirement.
My grandson seems to have some aptitude for my work. He works with me after school, and graduates in May. He took 2 years of trade school for graphic arts & printing. We'll see what he does, but I do have high hopes.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks for all the advice, folks. Anything else you would like to post would be appreciated.
Last November, I had been in this present location for 25 years and since I had worked at a large electric sign company for the previous 25 years, I thought that it would be a good time to slow down.
I don't plan on sitting on the couch, but I do plan on keeping the nap schedule the same. The plan is to still do some design work for local shops, keep hand lettering some for local folks, and writing some for SignCraft.
The passion that I've had for letters over the past 60 years has dwindled some and the excitement of hitting the floor running every morning has diminished slightly, even though I look forward to every day.
Over the past five years I have become more involved with a local faith-based drug and alcohol rehabilitation center, so it looks like I'm going to be spending more time and energy there. I teach three classes a week and spend time with the clients just encouraging when I can. It doesn't pay anything, but it is very rewarding.
Hopefully, by the summer I will have finished my book and have it ready for publication. It is not about signs, but an inspirational (hopefully) book for those afflicted with addictions. It is called "You Are a Masterpiece".
Somewhere in there I hope to get back to doing more pencil drawings and painting in oils.
There are a lot of opportunities still out there that I want to look at before my clock here runs out.
[ January 13, 2017, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Raymond Chapman ]
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
i to have a book, been working on since my death & surviving it. its called THE BOOK OF JOE. it to is more of a spiritual compilation of god in the life of one of his children. here is the forward....as iam still writing the body of the book.THE BOOK OF JOE Preface I, Joseph M. Pribish, being of somewhat sane mind, at age 66 decided to put word on paper to the effect of all my life experiences and GOD'S interventions, to where they have taken me on my journey to find true spiritual meaning of all of it. Its not so much a story of how I came to be who and where I am, but more of god's constant vigilance & guidance over one of his chosen children. I have to begin this with the how I got here, with the family I came from and the way god kept me safe thur all of it. also did some time as a drug and alcohol addiction counselor. get some books of JOHN BRADSHAW...... he was a priest,, with a psychology degree, and spent many years DRUNK.... then got clean. really good to hear his methods.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Raymond...sorry I can't be of any help with business advice...I'm just not a businessman...but best of luck in getting a fair price for your business...I think from this point forward you may have a greater mission in life than that of making signs...although I've only known you through these posts in Letterville I always got the sense that you were a special type of person with a lot to give...I'm sure that when your clock does run out...you will leave the world a better place than before...best of luck to you.
posted
Nicely said, Rusty... Raymond, you describe a potential dilemma for each of us: How to shut down the shop and retain fair value.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
See, now if I was to sell my business I would do a video. Here's one I found on youtube.... Sign Business for Sale For Sale You could show wonderful the town you are in etc. And at the end of the video, you tell them you will gladly throw in a frig full of Lone Star beer, in bottles of course.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I haven't made too many smart business decisions but I did hit a home run a dozen years ago.
The sign painter I subbed my hand lettering to decided to move to New York, which he dubbed "The traditional homeland of the Jews" (he's Jewish). He sold me his awning lettering business, client list and some equipment. I was afraid taking his work on would get in the way of the apartment work which formed the majority of my work at the time and did the deal more as a favor to him.
Shortly thereafter, the apartment business here nosedived in the recession and the awning work got me through. The awning companies bring the work to me, I letter it here, they pick it up and leave me a check. It's easy work and has enough creativity to keep those juices flowing. I only do work for a couple property management companies now.
Having had eight surgical procedures on my back and neck in the last two years and facing still another, I'm happy to have non physical work I can do here.
I paid Gary two thousand up front and a declining percentage (20% and then 10%) of the gross off his client list for the next two years. It worked out well for both of us. One reason it worked is he had confidence in my honesty and design skills and was sure I would be able to handle his long term customers properly. He trained me for a month and introduced me to his major accounts, in some cases personally, in others via email. He didn't strike it rich with the way he handled it, but he didn't have to walk away with nothing and it helped someone else.
Hopefully, there is a young person with design skills who will be able to take over in some fashion that will allow you a little for your years of goodwill.
I doubt any of us will get rich by selling our shops. The riches came in making some sort of living off our ideas and creativity and having the satisfaction of being able to drive by our work later and think, "That still looks pretty good!"
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
David...I was on the other end of a sale like yours. I sold my client list, inventory, equipment and all client files to a friend back in 2007.
I also introduced him personally to all my clients.
At the time, his business increased dramatically and then the recession hit. He lost some of his existing clients and some of my clients, but overall he was still able to maintain a profitable business.
I asked him, after a couple of years, how the whole deal had worked out for him and he said that he had earned back the purchase price within a year and having the extra client base worked out well during the recession.
[ January 20, 2017, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Dave Grundy ]
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I never thought or expected to get rich making signs...but for those who did get rich... I am happy for you...to be honest...financially I barely made ends meet...but being true to myself... and giving the best of myself to my work meant everything...I'm now mostly retired and with a modest income and savings...I mean really modest by most standards...but it's enough...so that is plenty...after 35 years of sign making... the money is the least of things I think back on...you spend it and it's gone...but what remains when the money is spent is much more valuable...and that is the satisfaction and pride one feels from giving their best...you know when I made a sign my client got more than a sign...they got a little bit of my soul...........think I'm starting to sound silly so I'll stop.
posted
there is something intangible......and cant be put in dollars and cents, when WE(sign painters)go by something we did 5-10 years ago......that is STILL DOING ITS JOB. makes the time spent at this trade worth it. i basically never have retired completely. SUNDAY guy came to the house wanting a name for his back window. got $20 for the hour i spent with him. guy was here last week said when i quit makeing sings he would like to buy my vinyl cutter. tols him he would have to take that up with the wife.......after iam GONE))))
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I heard a funny story (surely not true, but funny) about a person who was retiring and decided to send everyone on his client's list a $35 bill for services rendered. His thinking was that if most clients paid the bill ... after all it was only for $35...then he would have a nice little bonus when he closed the doors. If a client called and complained about the bill, he was simply going to apologize that it was a computer glitch and they should just ignore the invoice.
Stranger things have happened, we just finished watching "War Dogs" which was based on a true story.
Good luck!
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Funny Bill, but got me thinking about a go fund me retirement fund. Anyone want to say goodbye with a little donation? I'm kind of thinking that may have already occurred.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic