posted
I remember seeing different ways people protected there sketches from having a person take the sketch to another sign painter. I just did a layout for a prospective client and he wants a copy..(I did work for him before) but I still want to make sure he doesn't take it another person and be out my time and design..I realize I should have asked for a deposit up front but being how I did work for him before I fel funny askin'. I did write a one line caption that says...Use of this design without written consent from the artist is an agreement to pay for the complete job. What do ya think? should they sign it or???
-------------------- Gonzalo Curiel Peewee Signs & designs Oroville Ca 95965
posted
PeeWee, Did you design this during work hours? If so, did you get paid for the design? I find that during work hours, time is on the clock just as when I have a brush in my hand. Having someone to design for puts money in your pocket, after that the customer can do whatever else he wants with that design and the worries are over. Next job!
See ya at Cranks meet
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
Never do a sketch without getting paid, if there is a copyright notice it helps if they sign an acknowledgment that they read it and you state a specific amount. Otherwise your setting yourself up for the cutomer shopping around....
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
last week someone posted a great idea- try to design a watermark into the background that has the disclaimer...Then they can't say that they didn't see it.
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you Posts: 359 | From: NS Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Our quotes all say..."Original designs and layouts are property of Diaz Sign Art. Sketches remain the property of the designer. Use of these designs by others without permission or compensation to Diaz Sign Art is prohibited! Extensive revisions and/or additions will be billed as extra expenses. A 50% deposit is required on all orders over $500.00 to cover the cost of materials." I print that in an area that can't really be cut off, in the case of a digital photo of the building with their sign on it, it is OVER some part of the photo. We won't let a sketch leave the shop without a $50 deposit. We tell the customer that $50 will be included in the cost of the sign, but we explain WHY we do this....explaining we know THEY wouldn't do this, but we have had customers take out sketch to other sign makers....we are just protecting our time & skills.... It all depends on how you approach it. MOST customers can see that you are just trying to protect your efforts.
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
The absolute only way to protect your sketch is to get paid up front.
If not, then you take the risk of it going to another shop. No stamp is really going to stop them, yes you may sue but then its more wasted time and energy.
Most professional businesses that do drawings always get retainers of sketch fees up front.
The act of handing a customer a drawing without compensation, devalues your time and service of doing the drawing in the first place.
There is no gray area, this is simply black and white. ( or color if your willing to pay more LOL )
[ April 08, 2004, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
does someone out there have a REAL document saying the property is the artists? is it really a LAWthat there stealing it if they dont pay for it .or are we just making it up like it is a law?it is art that is created from nuthing ,not like someone is stealing a t.v. or a boat or the like ..does the government really protect us?..always just wanted to know this ..and i sure would like to know where it is written out so i could make a copy ...thanks
I can hardly believe how affective a good sign is, that tell the customer "We do sketches and drawing for signs". "Please ask about our, or my, great price for creative artwork". "It's a bargin" "Get yours today!"
A gentle wave of your index finger in the direction of a really attractive, well laid out, sign, with fluorished and dingbats, is truly affective.
Good signs really work!
j
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
Guy walks in and wants his van lettered, and would like a sketch. Then he hands me a sketch from another sign shop and says he doesn't like the layout.(it was a pretty lame layout)
So, I said I would be happy to design his layout if he put a deposit down on the job.
I explained that since sketches end up in other sign shops, I felt better not being abused in this way.
He said he would NEVER take my sketch to a another shop. I replied...well you took the other sign shop's sketch to me!
His face turned beet red.
He left, came back a few days later with a sketch he and his wife made in print shop. It was bad, but he had money in hand and thats what he wanted. So we did it!
-------
We have a shop policy sign. Most of my new customers read it. Sketching and design doesn't begin unless a minimum deposit of $85.00 is given. They are required to fill out a sheet with all their information. Designing is a service that is billable.
I tell the customer that I like to design very early in the mornings ( between 5am and 8) when there are no interuptions. So the sketch will be ready the next day.
If they want to keep the cost of the job down, then just leave the vehicle with the copy and let us have the control to make it look good. (that the way sign painters used to do it )
------
We had another lady come in today, needing signs for her husband who is a Chiropractor. They need a board sign out by the road on a post with other tennents, a sign by the walk in door and a lighted sign facing yet another street.
We wont make sketchs for this, just an itemized list of the work, and bid on each component. If we get the work, then will start making designs so that the customer and I are on the same line of thinking.
-------
Then there are the loyal customers who never go anywhere else for a sign but us. I can trust them with a sketch. But most of them are trained by now to just let me handle the job and keep out of my way.
[ April 10, 2004, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]
posted
Are these exempt from a deposit, Dave ! Then there are the loyal customers who never go anywhere else for a sign but us. I can trust them with a sketch. But most of them are trained by now to just let me handle the job and keep out of my way. even one of your trained customers can give you a headache if you change the rules in mid-stream, give me a break
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
quote:Originally posted by GARY CULY: does someone out there have a REAL document saying the property is the artists? is it really a LAWthat there stealing it if they dont pay for it .or are we just making it up like it is a law?it is art that is created from nuthing ,not like someone is stealing a t.v. or a boat or the like ..does the government really protect us?..always just wanted to know this ..and i sure would like to know where it is written out so i could make a copy ...thanks
Actually the law states that a customer who commissions work from an artist owns the copyrights to the design. The only exception is if there is a contract in which it is stated that the artist retains copyrights..
The law will protect the artist if there is hard evidence they do in fact retain the copyright, but then you have to weigh the headache and hassle of persuing it against what will be gained by persuing it. If ya gotta spend $500 in lawyer fees, take days off work, etc it's probably not worth the hassle to protect a $50 sketch.
Now, if ya charge $300 for a sketch or quick layout deposit, they probably wouldn't run off to another shop with it cause that's a lot of coin to drop.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks pimp and rick ....seems here the cats that dont buck up to at least a 50 spot to get going on there project are the ones i want anyways.. thanks for your responce on the real legal side of it ..things that make me go hmmmm....
quote:Originally posted by Gonzalo (Peewee)Curiel: I remember seeing different ways people protected there sketches from having a person take the sketch to another sign painter. I just did a layout for a prospective client and he wants a copy..(I did work for him before) but I still want to make sure he doesn't take it another person and be out my time and design..I realize I should have asked for a deposit up front but being how I did work for him before I fel funny askin'. I did write a one line caption that says...Use of this design without written consent from the artist is an agreement to pay for the complete job. What do ya think? should they sign it or???
-------------------- john m frankel pinstriping & artwork by john m frankel 3261 liberty ave alameda, ca 94501 frankel@alamedanet.net Posts: 60 | From: alameda, california | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic