posted
Except for comping purposes, I do not use clip-art, (I use clip-art and archived drawings as inspiration for my drawings though) I realize that in a sign shop situation it's a quick solution, and I have had to use it when I worked in a sign shop, but I always modified it enough to kinda make it my own. I had it drlled in my head that clip-art was bad, and I hate to see the same clip-art over and over again. Anyone here do the same are draw your own stuff? Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1539 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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I don't.....I still know how to use a pencil or a brush......!!
I have "Looked" at clipart in the past........never saw anything worth while.
I have over the past 45 years, compiled one hell of a morgue, and at times go through it for fresh ideas, or concepts, but not for the purpose of clip and paste.
Besides.......I "Like" to draw my own stuff...!!
..........cj
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
posted
IF I SEE ONE MORE SET OF MAGNETIC SIGNS WITH THE TWO PINE TREES AND THE MOUNTAIN LINE-ART ON THEM, I'M GONNA SHOOT MYSELF! THERE ARE ONE HUNDRED BAZILLION DIFFERENT PIECES OF CLIPART OUT THERE TO MAKE USE OF SHOULD YOU SO CHOOSE. THOSE OF YOU WHO DO USE CLIPART, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM USING THE PINE TREE THING! THANK YOU!!!!
posted
more..... A customer came to me and wanted a set of magnetics EXACTLY like his business card, which had an ugly piece of clipart on it we've seen a million times. I reproduced the card as he had requested, using LARGE-FORMAT.....It was an EXACT reproduction(scan/print). When he came to pick them up, he was all upset that I had "copied" his card, instead of applying some artistic license as he had expected! YOU CANT PLEASE EVERYBODY.....sometimes YOU CAN'T PLEASE ANYBODY!
posted
Of all the computer generated Clip-Art I've ever seen there have been maybe two images I might have used. Over the years I have amassed several file drawers of personally clipped artwork and approximately 500 books in my library and still I almost always personalize the finished result. It's in the eye of the beholder.
But, then again, I don't cut any vinyl...I paint.
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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Ha ha - Bob, there is a vinyl shop in my town that uses a palm tree on a tiny desert island for their 'fancy' stuff. Always done in lime green & yellow on a white background, always leaning to the right, always the same size; postage stamp size up in the corners -- and no matter what the subject content. Maybe they bought a disk of clip art with only the one image on it?
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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I wonder how many customers have left a shop with their new sign, card, brochure or whatever and the same clipart started turning up on everything they set their eyes on.
posted
I don't have any clipart... and never have used it. I don't have any problem with folks who use it though.
It is just SO much quicker for me to draw it by hand than look for something.
I realize that drawing takes talent and especially practice. And the more your brain gets used to coming up with ideas, the easier it is.
I just enjoy drawing so much that I would be robbed of the joy of creating artwrk if I just copied and pasted... no fun in that!
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8740 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Funny this topic should come up... as just the other day I was wondering, just how many 'sign shops' there would be, if suddenly clipart were outlawed or didnt exist.
I entered the business in the transisiton years, so I watched it go from all custom, to almost all clipart.
It reminded me of that line in the Jimmy Buffett song, "A Pirate Looks At Forty" where he says..' watched the men who sailed you, switch from sails to steam...'
I had to actually hand write something the other day, and was aghast at how bad my handwriting has become in the last 4-5 years! I cant remember the last time I wrote anything more than a check, and now, all you do is sign it - the registers print everything else.. sheesh.
True artists in the sign industry are becoming almost extinct, as the computer manipulator of pixels and points takes over. Salesmanship today, is the number one skill needed in this business. Just about anyone, given enough time, can layout something half-decent and sellable.
Clipart is only 1/3rd the problem.. the other 2/3rds are software and plugins for that software. Again I say - given enough time, even the least talented person on the planet can arrange things and pull sliders and drop down menus till something passable comes up on the screen. And now with large format being so readily available, all they do is click "print' and its over. They dont even have to weed vinyl, clean brushes or wipe off grease pencil marks.
It's only gonna get worse folks, as the prices come down and the availablity comes up on hardware and clipart.
The few really talented people will always find a lot to do, and be seeked out by those that actually care about talent and quality. So if you actually have talent, you shouldnt be sweating like a hooker in church right now.. otherwise, grab a towel
posted
Nope, I don't use clip art. I don't have to, I can draw.
I just find it easier and faster to grab a pencil and paper and sketch it out, than to search through a CD or catalog of barely usable junk art.
I spend much of my time just drawing. If it's night time and I just want to relax in front of the TV or something, I grab a pad of paper and draw while I'm not really doing anything. It's really the only way I can keep my sanity cause I just get bored with everything so fast.
Now I have just this huge archive of sketches, mostly vehicle graphics, that need to be vectorized and tweaked out a little bit, not a single one duplicated. Guess you could say I just built my own personal Clip art collection, maybe some day I'll sell copies of it at $400 a pop.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I use clipart and am proud of it as I am not much of an artist but my design skills are good and I am willing to learn but at least clipart allows me to have a job and be a signmaker to support my family rather than live on welfare and have other people support me after I had an accident and was no longer able to work at my original trades so I love clipart I do change it to personalize it but without I would be lost I also thank god for the person that invented scanners
-------------------- Ian Wilson Signmaker Retired 3 Panorama Drive Toowoomba Queensland Australia may all your troubles be little ones. The man that never make a mistake never makes anything. Posts: 656 | From: Toowoomba Queensland Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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Thanks, Ian, I was afraid I was going to be the first to come on board defending the use of clip-art.
I can draw fairly well when the spirit moves me, but in late years the interest has diminished quite a bit. I'm also the first to admit that basically I am a lazy person. (Once unemployed for almost a whole week back in 63) Beyond that, I went stale quite a while back, and clip-art opened up ideas I would never have thought of on my own. The same goes for the multitude of fonts on todays software.
I have sketch books and hand drawn patterns 30 - 40 years old still kicking around; have to say I like the new way better. Besides, it gets tiresome having to run out to the store for a new supply of erasers all the time.
Also have an extensive morgue of books on the craft, clippings, all of the Signcraft mags, and God only knows what else that I have forgotten about, to say nothing about a pretty good sized bunch of CDs.
When all is said and done, clip-art is just another one of many new tools.
FWIW.
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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Good reply Ian, I do the same, just change it a little. At the end of the day it is more important to make a bit of profit than spend the day researching and looking in magazines etc. The people who can just sit there and draw any item they want when they want are very talented and I take my hat off to them as I believe that that sort of talent is something you are born with. A good design with good spacing and a little altered clipart is no problem for me.
-------------------- Drane Signs Sunshine Coast Nambour, Qld. dranesigns@bigpond.com Downunder "To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer" Posts: 965 | From: Nambour, Qld. Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
If you are any type of production shop, you really should have a good quality clipart collection. I use Vector Art a lot just to germinate design ideas into my layout. General clipart does not get used much unless I need it for digital printing. And gee, I can draw very well, as many others that I know, and it doesn't discourage us from having a collection on hand. Whatever is the best solution at hand for the current project is how I decide to search or draw. Only makes sense doesn't it?
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Hey Rick, I use it a lot more than I like to admit. In an ideal situation, you start with a specific image in mind and get lucky finding something pretty close. When you think about it, using any typesetting FONT is pretty much the same compromise. The trick is to not design to the clip art (or font), but use it to fit YOUR design concept. Sometimes that can't be done so well, and that's what starts to seperate outstanding design from just passable.
So I use it. And a funny thing, sometimes it's darn good - but, in a logo situation, I always tell the client that it's not original art. It often becomes a springboard for additional design charges, to modify the 'placeholder' clipart into something original. Here's an example that I worked up today for a client that uses only clip art I had at my fingertips. It got the job done - to illustrate four widely varied approaches to a logo without investing more than 30 minutes. I could have pencil-sketched these as thumbnails in about the same time. But in this application, I felt this was more effective. In the final version, there will be no clipart.
[ August 15, 2002, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Joe Rees ]
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I love reading all these posts about signs and clipart...but the part that makes me laugh is the turns and twists they take. Cracks me up! Lots of funny ones reside in Letterville..... Of course I use clipart. Not that much. Most of it is pretty bad. WHICH IS WHY THE CLIPART ISSUE IS SO SILLY.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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Hey Mike L. - maybe you could snap a photo of one of those "Magnetic Signs from Paradise" and submit it for the "Sign of the Month" contest........
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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I find I don't use as much clipart anymore since i raised my shoprate to $321.77/hr and my price on 18x24 coroplast to $230 for one side,$277 for double sided,weeds all those types of requests right outta there
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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Hi everyone! Intersting Comments! As I mentioned before, I have used clip-art at sign shops, though I must admit I dreaded it, I have nothing against people who use it. We all fill a niche, in this business, though it seperates us by our skills and/or talents. I believe anyone can draw, I also believe that most signage is an artform or at least entails a fair amount of design, Layout is not design, and neither is clip-art, but it is a neccesary thing in this business. If a client on my freelance asks me to use it, I would, if it pays and put extra cash in my pocket. Ian when it comes right down to it, if I had to feed my family, I would do whatever it takes (legal, honest, and ethically) to feed my kids, so your point is well taken. Bill I understand your position, I hope when I'm older to not lose my edge or eye or desire to create, my father is 70 and he still goes on concrete pours and works hard so I think I'll be into it still. The Davids, I think in a production shop, clip-art is a viable solution, and if getting paid is your motivation, it would work for me, I work at a design firm, so we get paid for design, when I worked at production shops we didn't, so out came the clip-art. I'm not proud of that work, but I got paid well for doing it. Joe, at times I use cLip art as a place holder too, then replace it with original when a scheme is chosen when I work, though I disagree with the typography comment, there is a difference in typing, layout and use of type in design and it's jusification of the use of a typeface on typographic logo's (at least there should be) plus many sign designers have thier own typefaces, they came up with, an art in itself. Calvin? well I think he should get his kidneys checked, he pee's an awful lot around here, or maybe its the 7-11 double gulps doin it. Thanks for your comments. Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1539 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Lets take a look at the other side of the coin. First of all, I classify anything I can click on and use "clip art". Just because you don't use sissors anymore doesn't change the concept - It's click art.
There is a lot of bashing by the "purists", those who draw to those who buy and use clip art. I draw too, big deal. What irratates me is that those who do draw look down on and seem to have a condensending attitude to those who don't. Click art users are not on a lower tier of sign people, they just have the benefit of modern day tools.
So how did the use of clip art become a us and them in the sign industry? Look in your own camp purists. Thats right, one of your own put those design, fonts, sign formats up for sale on disk! And then others followed, and then more. Yeah baby, they "sold out" as those in the music business do when ya hear thier song in a Tv commercial.
Or... did they share thier talent (for a price) to help others make and sell better signs? So the next time you show your fangs to someone who is using click art, look in your own ranks for the culprits.
...and now you know the rest of the story.
-------------------- Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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I was thinking that maybe it sounded like the artists appeared to be looking down on the not so artistic types...and I apologise if i came off like that...I don't mean to sound like I'm better than someone because I can draw...
I actually do use clip art on occasion...I just hate ugly clip art.
posted
I should clarify here, I was not complaining or undermining the use of clipart, just saying that had it never become so plentiful, easy to use, etc - then sign prices would be higher, and about 1/500th as many shops as there are today.
The things that make your life better, sometimes makes it worse. It's in the way that you use it.
posted
Hey M.M. I dont think there is a difference between those who draw and those who use clip-art if that is what motivates you to do your work well, self satisfaction is the key to happiness, not who is higher on the totem pole. There is a difference in each others work, we are all at different levels, clip-art is not design, but can be incorporated into it. There are purists/elitist and someone better here, and without them, the art of quality signage could die, old school or new, clip art or hand drawn, I appreciate a good sign. I have had the privelidge of working for cranky ol farts and what they do still amazes me. In the end I can only hope I'm half as good as guys like Mike Stevens, Ed Roth, Joe Venegas, and some of you guys here, (I don't want to name names here, you guys might get bloated heads) So if your happy doin' what your doin' I think thats great! I was just wonderin' what people think. Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1539 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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yep i use clipart...send me all you dont want.....i also can draw/paint/ and was an art major at PENN STATE.....and i never use the same thing for more then 1 client!!!! that what makes the differance....evrything that you scan is CLIPART....so if you scanned someones BUSINESS CARD then you use clipart......
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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