posted
Hello I'm working on a banner for the Mars meet, and the paint isn't drying....whaht's up with that. I'm using 1-shot, some airbrush and some brush and neither is drying. This is the first banner I've ever done and it's acting like a tire cover I did years ago. This is suppose to be a paint excepting banner.........?? Ed (CJ) Williams
-------------------- Ed CJ Williams CJ Graffx Christiana,Pa. cjgraffx@comcast.net Just have'n fun.... Posts: 296 | From: Christiana,Pa. | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Hi Ed. Enamel-Receptive banners have a "special quirk" and that is that the plasticizers can and do migrate to the surface. If you do not clean and prep these types of banners BEFORE you paint, you will very often run into the problem that you've experienced. What's happened is that your 1-Shot paint has become CONTAMINATED with those plasticizers, and these are what's preventing your paint from drying.
Even if you wipe off the paint presently on the banner, there's a good chance that you'll also remove the enamel-Receptive coating. It's probably best to scrap what you've done, and start over fresh with a new blank.
This time, spray with Windex, wipe the surface thoroughly, and dry with a CLEAN rag or paper towel BEFORE applying any paint. This is the one exception to using Rapid Prep....DO NOT USE IT...as it's not compatable with the Enamel-Receptive surface. If you were applying vinyl, it would probably be Ok, but not if you're going to be painting.
Hope this helps you out.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2690 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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Rapid Prep, well we first designed it for "body and paint industry" using it to clean substrates for vinyl prep is its secondary benefit. I think if you talk to folks that have been using it in the painting area, you will hear this from most.
On the other hand, if you want to contaminate a substrate prior to painting OR applying vinyl, then use Windex (which is known to contain small amounts of amonia, silicone, etc.), if you are happy with your procedure, thats great, but its against all odds.
Just stating the facts as I know em.
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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Tire covers need to be ty-coated so do non enamel receptive banners, I got one for ya.... I do banners on a seasonal basis for the side of my shop, did one on a non receptive banner for halloween the text was vinyl but the Illustration was hand painted. I did it one night and left it to dry overnight, next day... it was still super tacky, no where near dry. So, Halloween is big in my town, so I hung it up wet. and left it out for a month, took it down, still wet.... so I hung it up Inside on the shop wall as a display piece. Next year Halloween comes around need to put it up again... STILL WET! a year later! I misted the graphic with OS clear, sprayed tycoat over it and it was dry in 2 hours.
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Hi Roger. The instruction sheets provided with the Enamel-Receptive banners specifically state, and recommend that they be cleaned using Windex. The Enamelcote surface would become softened, and even wash off should Alcohol be applied to it. Isn't one of your key ingredients Alcohol???
If so, that might remove the Enamel-Receptive surface, and render the banner blank unsuitable for applying 1-Shot. If you're absolutely convinced that you are correct, perhaps you should take this up with the banner manufacturers, since it's their recommendations that I'm following.
Incidentally, I've never had a paint failure when following their recommendations.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2690 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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Watch it Ken!!!! Yer goin up against Roger!!! (kiddin around!)
Seriously..Ya got those 500 decals done yet Ken?? If not...get off this BB and get back to work! HAHAHAHHAHAHA I love it!!!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Ken, if alcohol softens and possibly removes the coating, why are they suggesting Windex to clean it when the main ingredient in Windex is in fact, Alcohol (aka: Isopropanol, part of the alcohol family). Not tryin to stir up the crap, just trying to point out what's listed on the label.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I honestly don't know Mike, but if you're really that curious, why don't you ask the manufacturer...Mini-Rolls. I just follow THEIR recommendations.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2690 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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Ken, it just strikes me as odd that the manufacturer would poo-poo using alcohol to prep their banners yet they recommend an alcohol product which also contains ammonium and acetic acid, to do the job.
Like you said, yer just following their recommendations, but that's not to say Rapid Prep would not work. In fact, according to the MSDS on Rapid Prep, there's not even any alcohol in it.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I have givin demos to ceo's of major companys in the vinyl industry who were unaware or uninformed of facts such as these.
Sometimes "missinfo." is givin by a member of the staff that has a respected opinion but yet didn't have ALL the info. to make a clear determination. Just recently I posed a question to people on a sign board elsewhere, regarding the type of vinyl they were talking about, (they were refering to it as premium cast vinyl), when infact it is "calandered" but the "marketing staff" simply marketed it under the term "premium vinyl", you see, this is "missinformation" clear and simple, and confuses otherwise intelegent people !
It happens unintentionally within the structures of large corporations, and gets printed or put up on websites as "policy" when infact it may not be the most logical policy for that companys products.
Sorta like putting a peice of new equip. together, the instructions say to install 4- 1' bolts in holes A B C D&E, you get the message !
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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Ok, now you guys are freaking me out ! I've got a Mars banner streched out in my kitchen, all ready to be preped and painted. I've never messed with an "enamel receptive" banner before (always just tycoated them out). Does anyone have the manufacturers contact info handy so we can get this ironed out? I don't want me OneShot not drying!
Oh yeah, preemptive strike against Roger, I would've used Rapid Prep .
-------------------- Jon Androsky Posts: 438 | From: Williamsport, PA | Registered: Mar 2002
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Hey Santo... Watch yer mail, dude! Yer gettin' a 2x8 ER 10-oz. banner courtesy of US Banner. Jon, I hope this works OK for you, Mr. Newlywed! CJ, I dunno what went wrong...maybe Charlie chewed and/or pooped on your banner when it was in my den by his cage. love- Silly Jilly
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote:Originally posted by roger bailey: Oh yeah, I'm not falling for this "tryin to get my formula" stuff either, so forget it ! He he he he he he.
Roger
Roger, don't worry about it! I already have too many irons in the fire. I do have access to the sodium carboxylate though, my mom uses it in her soaps and skin care products.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
When you guys are done ranting try mine or Si's advise
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
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"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Thanx for the responces... The paint is starting to dry. Three days and half is dry... Maybe by next week it will all be dry. But it is easy to scratch. Can't make any mistakes on those banners, and that's hard for me cause I've got all kinds of mistakes up my sleeve... Thanx again CJ
-------------------- Ed CJ Williams CJ Graffx Christiana,Pa. cjgraffx@comcast.net Just have'n fun.... Posts: 296 | From: Christiana,Pa. | Registered: May 1999
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Never really had a problem with enamel receptive banners, just take them out of the box un roll and letter no prep at all never had a drying problem with ENAMEL RECEPTIVE, maybe the banner isn't receptive this has happened,when I realized it was never going to dry I took it outside and sprayed with a hose let air dry repeated it let it sit overnite then it was dry.
-------------------- Scott Moyer Canadensis, Pennsylvania 570-595-0310 Posts: 111 | From: Canadensis PA. USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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Mike...what the heck is sodium carboxlyate? And what is it's purpose in skin care products or anything else? I just did a brief search on the internet which describes it as some kind of substitute for soap, and that humectant variety aids in the bonding of water to skin....is this some kind of aid in prepping banners?
I've always prepped my banners with Isopropyl Alcohol which is recommended by Ameriban...and this has worked extremely well....but then again, I'm not painting...just applying vinyl...
posted
New banners need only be cleaned lightly with Rapid Tac or TacII, and a cheap paper towell.
(Your supposed to be asking this question on my new "tech board" at rapidtac.com)
This "sets up" the material for a complete bond of vinyl.
Oh ,Todd, Mike was stating one of the components from my m.s.d.s. on Prep, and how it was similar to what his mom uses for something else(thats all on components now, ok).
Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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I just did a brief search on the internet which describes it as some kind of substitute for soap, and that humectant variety aids in the bonding of water to skin....is this some kind of aid in prepping banners?
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