posted
Pouncing………..I’ve only ever heard about it……….never seen it demonstrated. (other then my wife doing it once and awhile)
I think I have a little understanding of pouncing……..but the information is disjointed, so I’m just going to ask all the basic questions.
Feel free to answer or direct me to a place that will.
What exactly is it? How are these (patterns?) created? What materials and tools are required? What are they used for? Can I create them with my Summa D620?
The wonderful thing about Tiggers.....is Tiggers are wonderful things........that goes for you people too.
[ March 08, 2002, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: John Martin Robson ]
-------------------- John Martin Robson Pendragon Signs & Graphics Yellowknife,NT,Canada
if it's not one thing.....it's two things Posts: 261 | From: Yellowknife, NT, Canada | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't know much about your Summa, maybe someone else will give you something on that. On my cutter I just change my cutter knife out to a ballpoint pen and plot the same lines on a piece of paper. I've use kraft and butcher paper, then I go over the lines with the pounce wheel. The pounce wheel is a little lo-tech for some so there are other means, but even a tracing wheel from the fabric center will work to make the holes along the lines. Turn your pattern over to sand the holes. Turn it back over and put it in place and dust it with the chalkbag.
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Before computers the best way to reproduce a layout fast and accurately was a pounce pattern. The process dates back to way before Michealangelo painted the sistine chapel as it was in common use by that time. In most cases the layout was drawn by hand actual size on a piece of paper, then pin holes were made along important lines so as to make it possible for charcoal dust to transfer through the tiny holes onto the surface to be painted. Today you use a plotter to draw the patterns or if you have the expertise do them by hand(this is the time to correct any and all mistakes in your layout) then use an electro pounce preferably or pounce wheel to make holes in the paper.Once the pattern has been preforated(the process of putting those tiny pinholes in the paper along important lines)it can be taped into position and a bag full of charcoal dust(or carpenter's chalk/baby powder/corn starch) is banged against the paper to transfer a paint by number outline on the surface to be painted is achieved. You can then take it loose & repeat the process on another sign or the other side of a vehicle,etc,... This process also is used to install 3 dimensional letters(make exact locations for stud holes,etc)and make multiple shapes for sign panels or anything else it may apply to if more than one is needed to be drawn quickly & repeatively.Alot of shops used to require a pattern for every job that went out the door as it was the part of the design process where as mistakes & layout errors were corrected before production began. In most of the old magazines pattern time was charged in most cost studies.In the past the actual pouncing was primarily considered an apprentices job, and the actual drawing of the pattern was the journeymans task and in some cases in larger shops it was a full time position.Any way you do it the end result is a precise paint by number layout that can be repeated in a matter of minutes in most cases until the pattern wears out at which point you can pounce the pattern on another piece of paper to reproduce the original.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Back in the day, John, a large collection of rolled up pounce patterns was a mark of a well established shop. They were coveted like gold and hoarded religiously, much like your computer files would be backed up and protected today. Indespensable for that client who got a new truck every five years like clockwork. Funny, back then very few disputes arose from clients who thought the pounce pattern was their property or wanted to give a copy of it to their printer to make some business cards. Hmmmm.
SONGPAINTER Original Sign Music by Sign People NOW AVAILABLE on CD and the proceeds go to Letterville's favorite charity! Click Here for Sound Clips! Posts: 1974 | From: Orleans, MA, Cape Cod, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
How well I remember those days that Joe describes. I remember in 1990, we had been completely computerized by then. My father and I looked at the storage space above his office and all of the boxes upon boxes of paper pattern of jobs he had done since the late '50s. He became a bit nostalgic and maybe a bit melancholy as we pulled the boxes down and put them in the dumpster.
posted
Oh No...don't tell me they are going to retire the pounce wheel. Kicked to the curb by the digital age. Oh Well...Send them out to me in Texas. I will use them as tiny little spurs.
posted
I remember feeling very sad when I booted out my patterns too. All hand drawn with care. Ah yes Those Were the Days My Friends! However this computer stuff is pretty slick too. One customer awhile back was a real pain in the you know what. Well.....alls I had ta do was push the DELETE button and he was gone. outta my system. take THAT.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Pounce patterns are the best way to do hand painted work that might need to be done more than once. I still use pounce patterns for some pictorial work. You can get a Pounce wheel from Dick Blick for a couple a bucks and you can be pouncing too!
Do you know the most wonderful thing about a hand drawn pounce pattern?...
... that it's the only one!... yes it's the only one!
-------------------- Ken McTague, Concept Signs 57 Bridge St. (route 107) Salem MA 01970 1-978-745-5800 conceptsign@yahoo.com http://www.pinheadlounge.com/CaptainKen
---------------------------------
"A wise man once said that, or was it a wise guy?" Posts: 2425 | From: Salem, MA | Registered: Apr 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yep...I still have a couple of boxes in the attic of pounce patterns...can't bring myself to throw them out. " Ya know..I just might need em someday"
I started out using a pounce wheel...soon I figured out that an electro-pounce was a whole lot easier. I still use it quite often.
Hey...maybe we can donate them to the 'Sign Of The Times' sign museum. Or maybe we can sell them as art pieces...ya know how some people will buy anything!
-------------------- Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun" Posts: 1000 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Haa.. Me too..pitched a lotta patterns...I saved some..for memorabilia...glad I did.. Member what a pain it was to store all that stuff... Sure enuff when one did git throwed...it was the one ya needed! Griffold pounce wheels are made by a small company...bout 20 miles from here. I got some with busted toofies! John..I suggest you get some books...there are goos ones with detailed instruction and diagrams.. I will look up some titles for you and email you a list...these books will become your treasures...as mine have to me... powdered charcoal on lite... talc or cornstarch on dark.. Hannsee makes a pounce pad..if they still exist.. I always use a double layer of used socks...fillem n tie the open end in a knot.... dont use sox with holes in em....
posted
we made a pounce wheel to fit the cnc router
electra pounces never really made it down this way first one i ever saw was when we visited empy
we still pounce all sorts of stuff
just finished painting a tilt slab building that had the logo (ugly as sin) and the business name repeated 3 times, no other way to do this type of job quickly and exact
ive found that instead of sanding the off side its better to pounce the thing mirrored and then use the raised edge to grab the dust, a lot less banging just whipe over with the chalk bag
cheers gail
-------------------- Gail & Dave Hervey Bay Qld Australia
gail@roadwarriorproducts.com.au
sumtimes ya just gota! Posts: 794 | From: 552 O'Regans Creek Rd Toogoom Qld 4655 Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've still got most of my patterns, good thing too. I got a call about a month ago from a customer who wanted the lettering on his cube van touched up. The sides were fading a little and the rollup back door (MDO) was pretty well gone except where the lettering was. I originally did this job back in 87, boy I'm sure glad it wasn't a vinyl job:) I just relettered the sides but had to scrape the rollup. The pattern sure did come in handy!
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
A True Pouncing Story.... a long time ago, far, far away, I was without my perforating wheel, had to make a small 12" pattern for a gold job. I used a push pin to poke holes , like a wheel would have done, did'nt have sandpaper, so i gently rubbed the pattern on the SIDEWALK to sand off the nibs.
Also had to walk thru sand dunes for 50 miles to get to school?
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
"Back in the day, John, a large collection of rolled up pounce patterns was a mark of a well established shop. "
When I cleaned out my dad's studio, there were boxes and boxes of pounce patterns. Not as many as he had when I was young but still an awful lot.
For some reason, they were really hard for me to get rid of. It was one of the last things that I tackled - sat downstairs in the freezing cold basement (NJ in January) and went through every one. I kept a few, just because I had to. Mainly the signs that he had done for me over the years. It really hurt to toss the rest of them in the dumpster.
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I still pounce using my old Gerber plotters, never bought the pounce attachment for my Summa T-750 as I was told that Gerbers did it better.
I use pounce patterns for large styrofoam/polystyrene letters and logo's, which we then handcut, did letters for launch of Cosmopolitan here ´like that 40ft long and over 6ft high.
have had trouble getting pounce pads of late. A.S Handover in London where´I have an account can't get them.
I have a couple of small Hansee plastic pads and a larger wooden pad about 12", would be keen to replace the wooden one if anybody has any sources.
I made one pounce pattern last year. We had to do a period lettering job on an old repainted GMC pick up truck, 1964 I think.
They wanted it to look like it would have looked painted by a shop in the Midwest in the 60's.
I did use the computer to make the pattern, but instead of letting the computer pouce it, I did it by hand. I don't miss this work!
I always grab a sock, fill it with some baby powder, or baby powder mixed with some blue chalk line dust if working on a white background. I hate charcoal and quit using that nasty stuff years ago...it stinks, and it wont wash off your hands.
Once you place your pattern on the truck door, rub the sock filled with baby powder gently back and forth over the paper, remove the paper, then the real fun begins.
You see, if you dont want the powder to mix in with your paint and cause it to look grainy, then you have to tediously hand draw over the powder lines with a pencil, or stabillo, very lightly making a broken line most of the time, just enough to see where your brush should go.
Then you clean off the powder. The other trick was to keep washing your hands frequently to keep skin oils from smudging the surface so the paint would bond. Plumbers who join copper water pipes can not touch the copper once it has been sanded and the soldier is ready to be applied. same idea.
posted
I am working on a pounce pattern right now to transfer a logo to ice, but mostly I use them for murals. Regular paper works, but butcher paper is stronger. There are pounce tools for the plotter but I use my good old little handtool.You wanna make sure you are working on a soft surface like bristol board when you go over the lines with the wheel.I fill blue chalk line dust in a little bag made out of cheesecloth.It is easy and for some work there is no better method than pouncing. Have fun.
posted
I don't miss pounce patterns at all. I use masks for almost everything but my hand brushed scripts( it takes to long to scan and clean them up). When all I had was pounce patterns (and it's not that long ago, I'm a beginner with vinyl still)I used a piece of scrap vinyl under the paper.NO, not the vinyl we use to letter but upholstery vinyl. It was easy to transport (I work on the road a LOT!)and worked great, it punched the holes deep enough that i never had to sand the back.
-------------------- David Thompson Pro-Line Graphics Martinsville, NJ
I'm not this dumb, it's just the paint fumes talkin' Posts: 397 | From: Martinsville, NJ | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was taught the technique with an elctro-pounce machine, (which I still have!) There is nothing like the smell of slightly burnt paper 'cept maybe rapid tac and naptha to get me feeling all nostalgic.
I had a pattern made from a "cutter" for a large mural on the side of a building. I thought that it would save me time, it did for the layout, but the holes were way to small, so I went back over it with the electro-pounce and it worked great.
I was lettering some truck doors on site, and improvised and made a paper pattern poking the holes with an airbrush needle. worked great in a pinch.
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1736 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
I went down to the fabric store (another country song in the making hehhe) and purchased a few yards of green felt. I cut a piece to staple to an 18"x24" piece of coroplast and use that to work on tiny detailed stuff, with my smaller wheels and a safety pin tip in an exacto handle. I keep it by my drafting table.
The larger piece that was left, I staple gunned to the back side of my easel, so as soon as I am done with the projector, I can flip the felt over the front of the easel and pounce big a** letters and slide the pattern across the easel without having to hang out on the floor or bend over a table. The easel, tilts to many different angles of course, in case I had several lines of copy to tighten up to. I would pounce all my vertical lines and then turn the pattern the other way with the excess hanging on the front of the easel and just work my way down to the other end, pushing the pattern toward and over the back as it was pounced so I didn't lean on it and crush the pounce holes closed again...again, vertical strokes with the wheel. When I was through with it, the baselines for the letters were in perfect line with each other and it saved time twisting it around with each letter.
Also, I can do a test pounce on the felt to see if I left anything out and have a better idea of what it looks like before I pounce it on the sign, etc. Not having a plotter, I hand draw my patterns, with charcoal and or graphite for more delicate precision. It's nice to see what I have done without smears and extra squiggled through lines in the way. I used to use sharpies, or felt tip pens, but really loved the creative feel I got sketching with charcoal, as it was not permanent and could be wiped off and tweaked when I stood back to eyeball the whole thing. It's messy at first, but the pattern is a lot neater to look at after it's pounced and wiped down for storage hehehe.
After making a pattern, I would fold it in half precisely (using light source to see through the pattern to keep the baselines lined up from end to end) and cut little holes in the corners and along the edges, every couple of feet to put tape over. Then I can roll it up and use the longer end of the paper to fold back and protect the guts of the pattern, and label what the pattern is for. The original fold line acts as the center line when you get to the job site and people think you know what you are doing, if you don't have to wrastle through your truck for a yard stick and mark it off on the side walk trying to find your centerline. With the tape already on the pattern, It saves toting a roll with you, up the ladder. You can use a yardstick to push down the ends of the pattern, if it's just out of reach without another ladder move hehehe.
With my tape method, it's easier to pull the pattern back down as well, less chance of rippage. I've seen so many really nice patterns with tape hanging off the edges that get destoyed when it catches onto something else and subsequently rips the pattern to shreds with repeated use and sloppy storage. Rubber bands or drafting tape are good to use for holding the roll tight while stored.
Back in the day, I was known for tight patterns and would be asked to do them for other shops, from hand lettering to channel neon. My girls were wee little back then and offered many reasons to hit the emergency room on the way to the dinner table on their own. I chose not to have an electro pounce as I worked at home a lot and wheels were safer to keep around...short people like to slobber on everything. <grin>
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic