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Raymond wrote... "He commented on how lucky he was to have started out with a computer because you didn't have to have any artistic ability and that making signs was really very easy - just plug in the words and stick on some vinyl."
Ramond.. Nice job on the polite smile! (It seems a prerequisite in our business).
It's too bad, the new kid seems to be a nice guy. With his attitude though, guys like yourself will get the jobs consistently.
He will lower his prices more & more to get fewer & fewer jobs & then like a mildly irritating, small mud puddle, he will slowly dry up & disappear.
You will never hear a statement as ignorant as that come out of anyone remotely successful.
-------------------- Michael R. Bendel Bendel Sign Co,. Inc. Sauk Rapids, MN Posts: 913 | From: Sauk Rapids, MN | Registered: Jul 2005
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Even the oldest of the responders here were at some time a newbie and capable of atrocious work. My first wall was done in all Old English, all caps, straight out of a Speedball book. But I took my lumps and got better. If I had mentioned a "MALT stick" I would have taken a week of ribbing from the old guys. The Mahlstick is not a crutch but a tool that was used by trained craftsmen. The absolute best sign letterers that I had the pleasure of knowing used a mahlstick and us younger guys didn't take the time to master it. A mahlstick isn't just used to keep your hands out of your work, it is wielded to use the very tip of the brush to cut clean letters and flowing script. Many of you may not have had the privilege to watch a master use a mahlstick, but if you ever do, you will understand what I mean. Flowing Spencerian Script and crisp clean Roman serifs were the stock in trade of a true mahlstick master, and those letters were done before mending tape. Most of what I say here will not be understood by computer signologists, but you older souls will shake your head in agreement. The guy who broke the mahlstick never learned the true love of the sign trade. Someone once said that, "All you need to know, will be told to you, if you have the sense to listen."
-------------------- Bob Nugent Hotrodsonline.com Gainesville, GA 30506 hotrod@hotrodsonline.com Posts: 46 | From: Gainesville, Georgia | Registered: Mar 2003
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Hi Jill, and no I wasn't refering to you at all! I can't remember anything you have written that is mean spirited. And Si, you have an incredable scence of humor and have enjoyed your posts emmensly, but one cannot help but feel affraid to post here as critisism does run rampant here and one assumes it runs into the meets as well. One day I will attend a meet, when I get better, and yes I realize it is a double edged sword, can't get better until I attend meets, afraid to attend right now because of the few **sholes in here. Yes Sonny, I realize it is not the majority that critsize, but it is enough to scare me from posting much and attending meets right now. I appreciate Si's remarks...but I go to big shows and attend all the classes offered. I do love this board, I gleam information from everyone but shy from posting until I have something wonderful to show or tell.
-------------------- Michael A Latham Tee's Me Shirt & Sign 16462 Jefferson Davis Highway Colonial Heights Va. 804-835-3299 signdogopie@aol.com Posts: 379 | From: Colonial Heights, Virginia | Registered: Feb 2004
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The guy lasted 4.5 years? (A little longer than I thought). Seemed like he wanted to do better.?
The client you lost is back... getting a professional looking sign for a fair price. I bet you're both happy!
I've seen this scenario a dozen times in the last twelve years. It continues today!
I've had GOOD customers leave for another cheaper sign company & most seem to come back to us, with some cockamamie story that the 'cheap guy' told them as the closed their doors.
I had a very good customer tell me I was over twice the price of a competitor earlier this summer. They called back within 2 weeks & the other company went belly up! Ha! It was fun for me to tell 'my customer' no wonder they were so cheap, you bonehead! OK... I embellished on the 'bonehead' part, sounded good though, huh? He laughed, agreed & ordered the project from us.
-------------------- Michael R. Bendel Bendel Sign Co,. Inc. Sauk Rapids, MN Posts: 913 | From: Sauk Rapids, MN | Registered: Jul 2005
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Michael, I was going to write something similar to what Si & Sonny wrote, but they've already said it. Letterheads meets are all about helping fellow signies, whether brush or sticky or both, to learn new tricks, an opportunity to discuss ideas & styles & opinions, honestly, & put away modesty & ask for help on things that make you stuck. You'll get helpful answers. You'll get workshops. You'll get vitality.
Re criticism- I'm happy to criticise layouts of others in an analytical way- not because I know anything, but because the thought process helps me to analyse my own work & look for improvements. I also have a 'you'll only get out of something what you're prepared to put into it' attitude, so if I would ever like honest help & opinions, I need to be prepared to offer them too. They are, after all, just opinions, and you're welcome to disagree with most of them (I sometimes do), but you'll get that one that's really worth a million$ to you & opens your eyes, which makes it all worthwhile.
I've posted a fair few pix for opinions on the portfolio pages- not because I think I'm good at all (some are pretty ordinary)- but because doing so motivates me to try & design stuff extra nicely & post more- it becomes a sort of 'personal competition with only one comeptitor', that's all.
Again, with as many as possible contributing, by posting pix, you get to look at other people's creativity, & hopefully some will rub off! (or at least you can find the odd colour scheme to 'borrow'!)
Thanks for your post & opinions & comments- sorry I didn't mean to hijack Raymond's thread!
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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I agree we're all in different a stages of skill . . . that's not just signs, that's in all things, and areas of life . . .
Still, there's something to be said for doing as a career, what one is naturally supposed to be doing.
Michael (L), of course, no one deserves harsh negative criticism at any time, if you run across it here, or anywhere in your life . . .I reckon the best thing to do is get over it, never forgetting that everyone has a right to be wrong, stupid, or rude.
Goin' back to the example of Mr.Raymond's friend; it's usually pretty obvious that some people simply do not have a gift for certain kinds of work. Can they still learn to do it well and effectively?? Well, people have the capacity to do anything they really WANT to do, but some people have to try a whole lot harder, thus the tendency to give up easier. From my experience, (not all) but most people seldom really WANT to endure the sacrifices to absorb skills they're not naturally gifted for.
There are people in all kinds of vocations who love what they are doing AND make a great living doing it. Somewhere in that ideal is the answer to why some people make it and some don't being self-employeed. Of course, there's also something ( a lot) to be said for people who have a business head to go along with their talent, as Mr.Grundy pointed out somewhere . . .
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