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I thought it was what happened when a pain in the butt customer got the better of you
-------------------- Ian Wilson Signmaker Retired 3 Panorama Drive Toowoomba Queensland Australia may all your troubles be little ones. The man that never make a mistake never makes anything. Posts: 656 | From: Toowoomba Queensland Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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Um, I'm thinking snapping a chalk line for baselines when sign writing? Not sure who the first brush meister was that used it...or maybe snapping when a customer thinks the price is too high hahaha!
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Lyn used to carry her brushes under her garters, and when she'd pull one out..........................................................
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out! Posts: 4223 | From: Kalispell,Mt 59903 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Hey! I started out on my own by "snapping"!
Snappers are not all "fly by niters"...they are the ones knocking on doors while others are sitting in the shop, eating sandwiches and drinking beer, waiting for someone to come to them!
It is not a fun way to go...if you can't stand rejection!
Of course, there is always Joe Wino and his cousin Shakey Jake, but that is another story!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat
Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
well...the guy who can make a sign with nothing more the a "snapped" chalk line.....to keep it straight. no patterns, no vinyl, snap a line and letter....now their is talent....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Old Paint is closer to the original,that happens to equal the REST of quick in and out letters. I can "snap" a 3'line,via wrapping one end of the snap line around a pinky finger of one hand,whilst stretching the other end out with my other hand. The REAL "trick" with this method. Is to be able to use the thumb and fore finger of the pinky wrapped hand,to pick up and "pop" the powder off,creating the "guide" for multiple lines of copy. a quick letter layout,and paint between the lines. Will get the job done,get the money,and get out of town!!!!!!!!!!!! hope this helps
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Many years ago, probably during the depression, it was quite common for a drifting sign painter to go from town to town painting signs, mostly store windows. He would dazzle the customer with a letter that was finished by rubbing silver powder and it looked very bright. The problem was that after it weathered a while it turned very dark. This was called a dynamite job. Local sign painters would be very unhappy about the snappers.
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Linda, Joey, Adrienne, David, Bill, Si, All of you were on the right track......but......
Old Paint is closer....Pking hit it dead on with the Verbal illustration as to how it is done..... And PIERRE ..You are SICK> he he he . The way it came about...at least in our "neighborhood" ......we would be on a job out if town, (Working for a large Billboard co ) and we would have the opportunity to letter a truck or window, for some extra CASH...sometimes on the co's time...but mostly after we "Knocked off" and was back at the motel... But the term came to be a Very Derogratory Meaning. And if you were a "Snapper" you were frowned on... But as Si said ...this is the way a lot of people "Built" their business...(Me included)..Thanks for the response.and for a trip down "Memory Lane" Shep'
-------------------- Arvil Shep' Shepherd Art by Shep' -------- " Those who dance are thought to be mad by those who cannot hear the music "
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Here is a repl to your question from one of the old timers I apprenticed to that is still above ground.....
Hey ! Thats an easy one. In the olde days ( like mine ) I had in my kit a couple of pieces of chalk. Also in my kit I had a small ball of string. When making a layout on any smooth surface I marked the size of the letters to be on the surface ( usually a glass window ) then I would take a piece of string and run it through the chalk. I snapped the string on the marks ( top and bottom ) and that gave me margin to apply the lettering. When the job was done the lines that the string made were easily removed which left a clean line of lettering. This operation worked on any flat surface. Usually the signs were called silver signs because if the paint ( or size ) used in the lettering was properly mixed the Aluminum color almost resembled real silver ! The traveling sign-man hired to do a sign of this nature was called a SNAPPER because the merchant that was having the work done usually watched the snapping of the string used in determing the size of the lettering. Ergo, merchants always waited for a SNAPPER to come along because they worked a lot cheaper than the established Sign Companies ! Anyhow that was what was related to me when I was begginer.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
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A few years back I noticed a really well executed wall sign in Memphis, down in the corner where the bug ( signiture ) would be was A.Snap. Being familiar with his work, I knew it was done by one of the top signpainters in town, Kenneth Black, probably on a Saturday, as he was employed at the top shop in town during the week. Kenneth also had a great sense of humor
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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I well remember in my younger days snapping chalk lines on 40 foot Allied Moving vans and trailers. This was when I didn't mind working off two step ladders and a plank.
Used to use a carpenters reel type chalk line gadget with a sucton cup on the end. Place the suction cup at one end, run down one ladder, and up the other ( plank was too short to go whole length of trailer) spot the line and try to pull it tight enough to get rid of the sag in the middle, and then watch the suction cup let go, and put a nice blue wavy line all over the floor.
Ah, yes, those were the days.
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA
Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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I didn't know about the suction cup...I always used masking tape when I was working by myself.
And I don't about "The Good Ol Days" seems like Time softens a lot of things.....because when I was working by myself on projects like that.....seemed like a Pain in the A** at the time.
Shep'
-------------------- Arvil Shep' Shepherd Art by Shep' -------- " Those who dance are thought to be mad by those who cannot hear the music "
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Ah! Yes! The good old chalk line....every sign kit should have one! Laying out top and bottom lines, AND also good for laying out very large letters (75 foot letters, for example).
Hehehehe, Bill...suction cup doesn't work when you get that large!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat
Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by old paint: well...the guy who can make a sign with nothing more the a "snapped" chalk line.....to keep it straight. no patterns, no vinyl, snap a line and letter....now their is talent....
First actual sign job I ever did was a small fleet of trucks for a contractor. I didn't even know what kind of paint or brushes to use, or to make lines to go by. Lettered all 5 pickups and 2 box trucks without making a single line. I went and looked at those trucks six years later before I actually started my sign business and was surpised at how straight the copy was. Guess I could have been called a "snapper" that didn't do any "snapping," eh?
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Arvil, "Snapping" well actually I heard Snappers I remember the first time I heard that word from Warren Percell, Ron's father in Petaluma. I really didn't know what it meant, so he explained about traveling sign painters coming into a town a doing jobs no permits or licenses. Well I can also say yup I did it when I went cross country a few years back, I mainly looked for repaints, I figured if they were faded and no one has painted them then no one was interested, so it was an easy way and a no thinker on how to paint the sign to give you an idea how I did it. and all the great people from this web site I had the pleasure to meet. A story was written about that journey in my city. If anyone is interested you can read about here... http://franciscovargas.com/travels.htm
that word gave me some good flash backs
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98
Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Brad, I guess you could be called a " UNSNAPPER "
PS I used to attend Street Rod Shows in Beckley...
Cisco, I read your story. What an adventure that must have been..I have always dreamed about doing just that ...But I guess I am too old for that to happen now.....Congratulations !
-------------------- Arvil Shep' Shepherd Art by Shep' -------- " Those who dance are thought to be mad by those who cannot hear the music " Posts: 1281 | From: Mt Airy NC | Registered: Mar 2001
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Well, the way it was 'splained to me had too do with shop employee's snapping up customers when either the boss wasn't around, or when the customer left after shopping a price. good day!
-------------------- "I may be going to hell in a bucket, but at least I'm enjoying the ride"
John Zant Sign of the Times Lafayette, Louisiana signmojo@cox-internet.com 337-233-9824 Posts: 57 | From: Lafayette, Louisiana, USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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the guy who taught me to paint when i was 10-11 years old was one of these guys and a "shaky jake", he could not paint till he had at least 3 beers in him. he also gave me my 1st set of lettering quills, which i had never seen untill he showed me how they work. and he did the thing pat said with the chalked string and snapin it all by himself.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I still snap my line unless what I'm paintin has more than one side to it, or they look like they're comin back for another, hehehe!
Now, I've got young 'uns to hold my other end for me but back when I was young 'n tender, the customers were never afraid to lend a hand hehehe, they thought they were hot stuff if they got to help!
Bill, Yer so cute, you can sweep up them wavy lines on the floor before the customer gets back hehehe.
Pat, They invented the coolest thing, a snap line in a box that's shaped like a tear drop with a crank handle in it. It's too kewl, the string has a tab hook with a hole in it so's you can put a push pin through it to hold it if you can't hook it on or find a sweet and tender young thang to hold it for ya. I've had one of them in my kit forever...sometimes two. Just slide open the lil door on the side, squeeze some chalk in there and shake it up (close the lil door before you shake it). tttttthen snap and paint! Way quicker than totin around the projector and pouncin and sandin patterns hehehe! (Sounds like an ad in an old newspaper huh? LOL)
And the electro pounce comments...hah! When I first walked into a sign shop, I'd been usin a thumb tack for a pouncer, imagine the look on my face when they showed me one with a spiked wheel on the end of it. Man, I felt like CJ with a fistful of new china markers, er...I mean stabillos hahaha! Ahem.
I worked out of the trunk of my car for years, for other shops and anybody that drug me outta the grocery store to "look" at sompn to see if I can do it. I'd say, "I don't know if I can, whatcha got?" and they did their darndest to talk me into it. (Now, that was a good selling tool hahaha!) I knew all along, if it weren't underwater and I could keep my clothes on, it was a done deal, but I never let them know that to begin with. Gave them a sense of power I reckon, but it got me the job and when I was done and it looked better than what I lead them to expect, they tipped or fed me, or gave me sompn I could use. Good times, good times...
Matter of fact, one of the names I thought for my business was Snap Signs, but very quickly decided against it because of the negative connotation it totes with it...sigh.
posted
Time has a way of softening disdain. The term might be looked on now with some nostalgia. Venerated only with the distance of time, and not venerated at the time.
Linda, you posted while I was putting my post together. Gotta tell you, one knows one is getting old when one is no longer called handsome, hunky, or studly, and "cute" is the descriptive term. That hurts.
[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: Bill Preston ]
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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I have a short snap line in my kit - with thread on it instead of string. It makes a very fine line and I use it on glass jobs. As to the "Dynamite" jobs Bill mentioned - done right they last many years - you mix a little gold size in with your One Shot Lettering White (Or TWP- who remembers what that stood for?)* and at proper tack time you rub on the aluminum powder with a velvet pad and polish it up bright. The main trouble with this stuff is it makes a hell of a mess and almost has to be done on the outside of the glass. I did one 22 years ago and it still looks good.
You sweet stud you, I was tryin to keep us from gettin found out, you know what a soap opera this could turn into on here!
Santo,
Why do you think i stayed in Houma for only a year, not quite a year to be exact hahaha! Gator bait was not in my job description hehehe and I couldn't dance fer nuttin hahaha!
posted
Snapping, that's the itinerant signpainter, for sure. I watched a guy lettering a flat stucco storefront in Lemon Grove, Cal. c.1964 (I was one year into the trade). He worked from an old Pontiac station wagon,, aluminum extension ladder, his letters leaned in the direction he was reaching. Painted with brown enamel, and would toss gold glitter onto the fresh paint. Sparkly in the sun! He HAD to be a snapper, eh?
John /Big Top
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006
Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
very interesting comments. the way i heard "snapping" described is:
at the end of a one-stroke letter brush stroke, some signmen would snap the brush back with their wrist, leaving the clean edge at the bottom of the stroke. the wrist snapping became a kind of gesture that other people noticed and somesign men accentuated the flourish. ALL sign painters were "snappers". guys working fast, with thin paint, tended to snap more, and these are the ones who gave snapping a bad name.
(i think i read something similar in a sign painting "textbook" from the 20s or 30s.).
i'm familiar with chalklines, but i never heard them linked with "snapping" before, except in the general sense. (it would have made more sense to call carpenters or bricklayers "snappers", wouldn't it?)
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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