posted
OK Heads. Here's a hypothetical question for you. A new customer calls you up and says that he's just starting a new business as an auctioneer. He wants 6 signs, size 32"x 48" that say "AUCTION TODAY" with 3 arrows facing left, and 3 facing right. Because he's just starting up, his resources are limited, and he tells you straight up that he can only afford to spend $500.00 tops.
What could you provide him with? Would you tell him to go see the quickie/stickie shop , and give them the order? Would you offer to do 4 signs, for the money he's willing to part with? Or, would you consider him a "cheapskate" and tell him to take a hike? Theres $500.00 bucks at stake here, and that's the customer's stated limit. What would you do?
PS: Post your reply BEFORE scrolling down to see what solutions that other fellow Letterheads have offered. Let's see how ingenious and creative you can be should you choose to accept this order.
[ November 03, 2001: Message edited by: Ken Henry ]
[ November 03, 2001: Message edited by: Ken Henry ]
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2689 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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Going on the info you provided, I'd make him the 6 signs on coroplast with quantum 2000 vinyl or whatever intermediate vinyl you want. And take the 500.00 easy.
You could even use econolight instead of coroplast, and still make money.
That job is an easy layout and bang out job. No need to send him up the road or think twice
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you."
Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I have a guy like this. I'd go with the coroplast too and intermediate grade vinyl as well. There's not much creativity involved with this but it is a quick few bucks.
When I started with this auctioneer, he had a number of frames and wanted something cheap with which to cover or fill them. I think he still uses them and they are 6 or 7 years old. (These usually are only out a few days each week, most of the damage comes from loading and unloading)
The other thing with this guy is that he has several types of auctions that need longer period temporary signs (a specific house or land sale, a type of consignment sale) these all need one time ads that can be placed at or near the sale site.
The other thing to think about with this type of customer is that his SIGN cost will be relatively low or non existant compared to what he SHOULD be doing in newspapers, magazines and flyers. Give him the "best bang for the buck" pitch and he may consider something more.
Another thing here is to "design" (and charge for it) a sign marketing package that the locals will recognize as they drive down the road. They won't read all of the text but because it is this color or that shape they recognize it as another "Joe Blow Auction" and take interest.
I really prefer to give everyone a "letterhead quality" design if I can and if they can afford it, but sometimes you can make a quick buck because you have the tools and the talent to do it in an effective and efficient manner.
-------------------- Jeff Vrstal Main Street Signs 157 E. Main Street Evansville, WI 53536 1-608-882-0322
posted
2mm Dibond and economy film. No big deal. With our 30" plotter, it's a very fast $500 for us.
We never encounter leaving $$s on the table. Our Architects and Generals know our price schedules and simply order their signage. If it's a carving, it's a firm quote. We're wholesale to our customers and don't negotiate prices. That's up to them and the end user.
-------------------- Pierre St.Marie Stmariegraphics Kalispell,Mt www.stmariegraphics.com ------------------ Plan on knowing everything before I die and time's running out!
posted
"GET THE MONEY"..show the customer what 500 can buy. At that point the customer can decide whether or not he wants to deal with you.
I learned a long time ago not to "Blow them off"
If your package meets his needs you'll get it... make money and more importantly you've created a good relationship with someone that might have a half million dollar job someday and thye will remember how you treated them...now you'd be happy to know you treated them right wouldn't you?
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla. jumpers@itlnet.net
posted
I scrolled down without looking and here's what I'd do. Six signs,32x48 on Coroplast,as he didn't specify materials,with one color vinyl. That two sheets of Coroplast, and about 20 bucks of intermediate vinyl. Total for supplies, about 35.00. Total profit, 465.00. Take about three hours to do. I'd take it.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
I ran this through my head, and I saw no problem off the bat. Meaning, I could produce this job as requested and make a profit. Then I ran it through EstiMate, as I usually do in order to not use the head, and came to $533 on 1/8" styrene, double faced, with 2 mil Cast, and a fine clean profit of 43%.
Switch to Intermediate, and the cost is pretty much right on, profit 41%.
These are the figures of my shop (EstiMate adjusts the national averages of substrates/vinyl etc. by my hourly rate, my speed of production, local market level, the hours I work and the income I need).
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com
Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Ken, I did not read the other responses before replying;
Tell him to take a hike? Hell no. I love it when people twll me how much they have to spend, and $500 is very realistic. Since you said three left and three right, I have to assume these are one-sided. And at 32" wide you're talking about a perfect yield of 3 panels per 4x8 sheet. And the copy is very low - only the word "Auction" and an arrow? It's the panels only?, no posts or installation, right? This isn't a trick question???
I'll be very surprised when I go back and read the responses if anybody had a problem working with that budget. I'd suggest 4mil Dibond with vinyl graphics. $80each would do it for me. Hell, it's a two hour job.
I will bite. Could this be done? In U.S. dollars? Sure. Two sheets of thin coroplast. Economy Intermediate Oracal. Cut them as one piece layout on 30" material. At this price, one color layout, you know?
We could have this job done in two hours top to bottom. This included layout, cut, weed, tape and apply vinyl, not to mention whacking up the material. That's without breaking a sweat.
I would do it. But hey, $450 gross profit for two hours ain't that hard to take. While it wouldn't appeal to the "artist" portion of my brain, my wallet is screaming to go for it.
It's going to be interesting to see what was posted without looking first... LOL!
Have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter
Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
I'd buy (2) 4' x 8' sheets of corex @ $8.00 each, cut in thirds & apply some in-stock basic color 3 mil vinyl in some no-frills layout. Then I'd tell him to mount them to some treated 3/8" ply.
Of course I would state my intentions before doing the work, & would maybe meet him halfway on the plywood labor or expense if I needed the work.
posted
I could offer him banners for that. I realize that they could easily be done on most any pre finished panel, and this could be an easy filler job. Whether to take it would depend on how busy I am and what kind of work I'm doing. If it was a time when the shop was filled with carved, blasted, and pictorial type jobs, I'd likely send him down the road. As easily as it would be to accommodate him, I'd question whether this is the type work that I want to attract? Would I want to put my name on them?
[ November 04, 2001: Message edited by: Rick Sacks ]
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6806 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Rick, would you put your name on them? God forbid we do pedestrian type work which is informational only. I do all types of work to satisfy my customers and am not ashamed of doing the lowly parking sign if that is what's needed. I would take this job in a heartbeat and make good money on it. Then you can get back to that "masterpiece".
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2787 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Hi again heads, and thank you for your replies. It would seem that the majority of the respondants would be willing and able to take on this job at a profit. I was wondering what your respective positions might have been were this guy asking for 2 4'x8's for the same money, and involving the same copy. There seems to be a perception in cost studys that a 4 x 8 is worth more. I can recall prices of $325 to $350 for a 4x8 with similar "bread & butter" copy. These smaller signs actually involve a bit more work...cutting substrates, weeding & applying 3x as much copy, but the whole job is comprised of 2 4x8's cut down to 6 smaller panels.
This kind of job is basically routine stuff here, and I'd take it in a heartbeat. As I see it, these kinds of jobs, while not "artistic masterpieces", are the ones that pay the overhead or buy the groceries, and enable you to be there and do the occasional "plum" kinda job.
Another consideration would be the potential for future work from such a customer. Down the road, I might see this guy buying a cube van or larger truck, and requiring that to be lettered. As an earlier poster indicated, auctioneers handle a lot of different kinds of sales...estates, real estate, vehicles, bankruptcys etc. He might be one well worth holding on to, and not sending elsewhere.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ?
That was COOL! You really got me. I see your point entirely about the difference in perspective pricing 4x8 signs vs. 32x48 signs.
It seems to me, however, that if the 4x8 were made on the substrates I've seen listed here, the price would still fall neatly into the $500 range. It would go above that (in my shop) only if the signs were on primed and painted MDO or on something akin to Omega board, Nu-Alum, or Alumalite. Of course, at that point I'd be using premium vinyl to boot.
Interesting to see what everybody's responses are here. It's a good cost study and I'd love to see more posts like this.
Thank you!
-------------------- Best Regards, Mark Smith EstiMate Sign Pricing Software It's Not Luck. It's EstiMate.™ http://www.EstiMateSoftware.com 1-888-304-3300
Posts: 724 | From: Asheville, NC, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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