posted
Hello Heads. Being one of them old dogs, I don't always learn too many new tricks easily. Hardner wasn't available as an additive when I first started lettering with 1 Shot, but I'm using a bit of it these days. What I'm finding is that it tends to increase the "drag" of the paint, and some colours are affected more than others.
What's been your experience when using this additive? Is there an "optimal" amount that should be used in say a 1 oz. portion. How much is too little, and how much would you say is too much? I tend to use it VERY sparingly...a single drop into a 1 oz. portion of 1Shot, since I don't want to have a lot of cans of colour around congealing into solidified colour. If I were to add more, would that affect the "window" for effective brush application ? Do any of you have any "tips" for using this stuff, or any definite no-no's?
Please share your experiences in the use of this product.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ?
posted
Ken, well I might as well say right off that I have been using a hardener or catalyst in both 1Shot and Chromatic since Chromatic came out with their catalyst numbered H001 back in the early 90's. Althought their catalyst and the new 1Shot catalyst is different, they are both hardeners.
When I first started using 1Shots new cat ( hardener ) I found by reading the label that a maximum of 10% added to the paint is to be used. When doing it this way, there is hardly any drag on the brush.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
We use hardner in our paint all the time. Makes the paint dry faster and harder. We like it.
I use it to thin the paint down a bit right in my dixie cup. I feel if you don't use enough, the benefits of using hardner are negated. On the other hand, use too much and the paint will not perform well, either. I only use the hardner in the paint cups. I don't mix it right in the can.
We use hardner in the Gripflex paint we use also. Works really good in. Tracy loves the way it sprays with the hardner in the paint. Thanks Dave May from N. Glantz....
Have a great one!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter
Posts: 6464 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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I like the new hardners...they actually make the new enamels act like the enamels of yesteryear.
The new formulations all seem to "jell" as they stiffen up.(talk about drag)
When you add the hardners they "skin" over and as long as you don't overshoot the runway (with hardner) they letter nearly like the formulations in times fondly remembered.
I have heard people gripe about the hardners being hard on their brushes but not found that to be the case (soo far) I suspect they are not cleaning their brushes as well as they should be. We'll see what the future brings.
My biggest disapointment was the fact that Chromatic "folded their tent"...in the climate I'm in (Oklahoma)High humidity,high heat (most of the year) I considered it to be a superior product,but have made the switch to One Shot with little problem.
[ October 02, 2001: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
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Hiya Ken. I use hardener in One Shot all the time. First...I dont care what anyone says...I wear a respirator when I get around this stuff and I feel a lot better for it.I dont feel so pretty good if I breathe the stuff.... I work for a large company that has a lot of delivery trucks...some of the graphics are painted. I add hardener at the recommended portion. The graphics I paint are 8 feet high...14feet wide characters.The trucks are black. Heres the steps...
1. pounce laytout 2.scuff area with scotchbrite....I actually outline the highlights of the graphic with a scotchbrite...then lightly scuff inside the scribed marks. 3.Prime all areas with Oneshot lettering white with hardener. 4.Scuff white with a scotch brite pad. 5.Apply colors..again with hardener. 6.outline and detail with black/hardener. Watch it for runs on large graphics with overlapping brush strokes! On big areas on 48'trailer graphics...you cannot get all the paint on while it is still in peak brushing condition.As time passes...the paint begins to kick and it gets pretty sticky.I use big flats to brush it on..as the paint dries..especially in summer heat,drag becomes a factor and it ruins brushes.I have resolved myself to the fact that I will destroy some brushes.The paint gets so sticky sometimes...I toss it and mix a new batch. The hardener is a real asset to this fleet of trucks.Gloss is maintained and breakdowns are nearly non-existant. For normal striping and lettering..I like the feel of the souped up paint.Nice n slippery!
On a 1 to 10 scale... over all good performance-10 stinkie-12!!!!!!
-------------------- Michael Boone Sign Painter 5828 Buerman Rd.Sodus,NY 14551
posted
I've found a good way to add the hardener is to dip the tip of the brush every fifth or sixth dip into the hardener in a seperate cup then mix it on the pallette.this way the paint doesn't set up in the cup on a hot afternoon down south here.I pour about a quarter inch in the bottom of a dixie cup then just toss what I don't use.it doesn't take much to really fortify the paint & the results are very strong once you get the right routine going. Another thing is I have to change pallettes more often due to the drag from the paint on the pallette,but pallettes are cheaper than paint & brushes.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I use One Shot hardner alot too. I've talked to the One Shot chemist about their hardner and its benefits and health hazards.
Their hardner is on the mild side as far as isocyanates go. But precautions still should be the order of the day. I use nitrile gloves and a respirator. You have to have the filter with the black / magenta cartridge to block iso's. Keep it in a zip lock bag between use. If you use it often, replace the cartridge about every 2 months. There is no odor from iso's so you don't really know when the filter is used up.
This stuff gets into mucuse membranes. They haven't seen any cancer from it yet, but once sensitive to iso's, you'll get a severe asthma reaction anytime you get near the stuff. Once mixed into the paint, you can remove the respirator but still avoid getting it on your skin. You need full protection while spraying though.
To benefit from using hardner, you should use 5% minumum to 10% maximum. Weather tests show the hardner increases gloss and significantly increases the life of the colors that fade easily.
If you are going to second coat, DON'T use hardner in the first coat. It makes the paint much harder and glossier to the point that the second coat won't even stick to itself very well. I learned this the hard way and confirmed it with One Shot.
Another benefit is that urethane clear coats will stick to One Shot beautifully. I saw evidence of this first hand when I painted the logo on the Boston Celtics floor. The court came back here to have a few boards from the old court put into to the new court. The floor manufacturer had to strip the urethane off the center panels. I had used hardner in One Shot metalic gold on some areas as the urethane paint maunufacturer did not have a metalic gold. The urethane was harder to remove over the One Shot than it was over the paint that was made to be used under their own urethane. So if you want to use an automotive clear coat over One Shot, the hardner will make it stick.
posted
Hate me if you must but I certainly got a kick out of this post. It seems persons would rather call this product a mild hardner rather then the correct word which is hardener, the term 1-Shot uses for its Catalyst. Isocyanite based products are not at all mild or maybe just as mild as pure Heroin with a 60% cut which still can kill you if you continue to use these products without proper knowledge on how to use them. Whether you pallete the brush or use a 5-10% cut in your paints, problems will arise because as with most poisonous materials persons use them without proper gear. Isocyanites can enter your system thru your eyes as well as your skin and nose and just because its manufactured by a name we all trust such as 1-Shot it certainly doesn't mean its at all safe. Even 1-Shots paint is made for professional use but as you can see by many posts on this BB, there aren't a whole heck of a lot real professionals. Using this product is the same as using HoK with its catalyst and I know many of you frown against using HoK because of its catalyst.
Try using your head for a change when using any product and try using it by following the directions of the manufacturer and not its reps.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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Joey, I'm one that isn't going to hate you, rather I agree with you 100%. I was a big believer in hardeners long before I knew of the dangers. Once I learned of the dangers and the precautions that were necessary I weighed the benefits against the hazards. My health vs. what we sometimes lovingly refer to as I.O.A.F.S. Would the customer, that is , the owner of the sign/vehicle I am working on go to such lengths for me? I seriously doubt it. Is adding a few years life to a friggin' sign worth taking any off mine? I quit using hardeners long before O.S. came out with theirs. When they did I was interested, until I learned they contained isocyanates. Like you say iso's are iso's and folks need to learn the dangers involved. The brain damage it does is irreversable. I learned of the dangers from a paint chemist. He made his point with "Remember all those people that were killed in India from the chemical spill? The stuff that killed them is what they make isocyanates out of!" Not wanting to knock One Shot, I'm a big fan, but I'm not going to suit up like an astronaut just to letter a set of truck doors.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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George, I was going to mention the big spill but figured persons wouldn't relate to it. I'd rather let them know directly where I stand and as you know I have been using catalysts for 30 some odd years and probably longer then most who use 1-Shot to begin with. Its only a shame that sign painters never did their homework in regards to Liqu-Seal some years back. Now that stuff really added gloss and was a great flow enhancer and it was really a shame that 1-Shot dropped it from their lineup, but thankfully theres Chromaflo which resembles the product perfectly.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
Thanks folks for your replies. Safety in using the materials that we do has always been a concern of mine. It would seem that the introduction of hardner into OneShot should be made with a more heightened awareness of the health and safety risks.
One thing that I have observed that troubles me somewhat is the ability of young kids at meets to get into the paints and do their thing. I wonder if the mixing of their colours has been properly supervised, or if they're sort of left to their own devices? At the last meet I attended, there were youngsters there, and opened cans of hardner readily available on the mixing tables for use. The kids were painting, and some were quite the up and coming Letterheads. Some were in their early teens, and some as young as 6 or 7. I've got to wonder if THEY know or can appreciate the risks and dangers of using some of this stuff, and if any were in fact using the hardner that was readily available to all. I'd really hate to see any of them put at risk because of ignorance.
Does this ring an alarm with any of you parents or meet hosts out there??
[ October 03, 2001: Message edited by: Ken Henry ]
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2685 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
Hi,Ken. Regarding "One-shot's" hardener, I agree with the other posts in that any chemical should be used with the utmost care & respect. I use the hardener daily in our shop and have been for several years. I wear a charcoal respirator when ever I airbrush(water base or any other paints), I don't believe that you need to wear one when lettering or striping since the paint is not airborn. Regarding the "paint dragging", I have found that if I pour a SMALL AMOUNT of the hardener into an "easy pour" type bottle & add a few drops to the "one-shot" in a plastic cup, as I need it,the hardener will tell you when it's time to replce it. If you add a few drops of hardener to some paint & it starts to get gummy in the cup, it's time to dispose of it. Also dispose of the remaining hardener in your "easy pour", clean out the bottle & add some fresh hardener. Good luck
Posts: 94 | From: PATERSON, NJ | Registered: Dec 1998
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