I'm gonna be a real signpainter for the first time in nearly 4 years doing a job exclusively in paint. Yikes, I wonder how my nearly middle aged body is gonna cope with painting two 3'x10' logos on a vertical corrugated steel cargo container after a few 'soft' years doing computer generated vinyl and the occasional 3D MDF sign in the comfort of my shop.
Question: Do any of you normally double coat Maroon One Shot. I have never used that color on any job before but I notice on others jobs around here that maroon seems to fade very, very quickly.
Thanks in advance!
Happy Signing.....Marty
------------------ Marty Happy Happy Ad Sign & Design Regina SK, Canada
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Marty - I've got some Maroon 1-Shot on 3 or 4 cement trucks here locally; done 'bout 5 yrs. ago, paint is still very legible; through the worst type of abuse possible. I highly recommend 1-Shot paint. Note: took no special precautions other than making sure I had clean, dry surface.; i.e. some were new trucks, others used. -Carl
------------------ Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Sonicob@aol.com
Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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Here in the Northeast, Maroon is a color I avoid like the plague. If the client insists on using, it is with NO GUARANTEE written on invoice. Still makes us look bad. Passersby don't know that. Can you make a mask and spray automotive enamel? Holds up much better.
------------------ Pat Swerna Old Time Carny Painter...on the road
Posts: 446 | From: Milton, NY US | Registered: Jun 2000
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My experience with maroon 1 shot as well as red is not good. Dont get me wrong 1shot in my opinion is the best however maroon and red dont seem to last. I did a van with maroon on the main copy, the next time I saw it, the guy had vinyl with red letters stuck over the main copy. I still wonder why he didnt come back and ask me to make it good. The blue secondary copy still looked good. Soooooooooo if it was me and they REALLY wanted maroon I would explain that it needed to be doublecoated.
You have probably read this before or know it but for someone elses benefit always stir your 1 shot WELL because the solids in the paint will settle to bottom in the can after setting on the shelf.
my 2 cents for what it is worth, Ricky
------------------ Ricky Simpson Simpson Signs South Central VA, USA "railroader aspiring to be fulltime SignArtist."
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A couple of years ago I had to repaint a wall job after only one year of wear. Only the maroon faded bad. I should have known better. Another job after that was a custom MDO sign that was maroon and gray. I clear coated the sign and after 2 years looks like new.
------------------ Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Since 1978
Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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well Marty, in my opinion. here's a few things i would look at first, did you give a price for double coating? Are the logos facing direct sunlight most of the day? Does it get pretty hot in your area? if these answers are no, then i would just stoke the outside of the logo heavy and fill the rest of the area with a roller, and you should be ok for a while, how long is awhile. maybe a year or two, maybe longer, If it doesn't get a mean direct sun beating. If it does get heavy direct sunlight, then i would double coat it for your reputation, even if you take a little loss, but you'll remember it for the next time. good luck and knock em out!!!
------------------ FranCisco Vargas aka: Cisco aka:Traveling Millennium Sign Artist http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935
"to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98
Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Let's remember that thanks to the brave warriors at the EPA, paint of all kinds is not what it was only five years ago. But aren't you glad all the little children who might chew the paint off those trucks are now protected?
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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One Shot RULES!! I like to sand, prime, sand,prime, paint, sand, paint and if time allows paint one more time. The shine looks great. The key is the preparation. You can clearly see the difference. There is one sign shop in our area that has such beautiful finishes on their signs - the prep work leads to good quality finishes.
Diane Summit Signs Sellersville, PA
"Fear No One & Respect All" (challenges me -let me know how to do it better - ha ha)
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Maroon has always been about the most fugitive of all the sign paints. Reds fade the fastest with blues close behind. When i painted I always double and sometimes triple coated these colors. In my experience a good clear over it will also help
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In my opinion, maroon should ONLY BE USED FOR TEMPORARY JOBS! It is the worst color, as far as fade is concerned! A coat of UV Clear will help, just a little. Now, if we could only stop those damn kids from gnawing on our signs... maybe we could convince the EPA, OSHA, HUD, and all the rest of the Alfabits... to let us have REAL pigmnts in our 1Shot again!
------------------ Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA (714) 521-4810 ICQ # 330407 "SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Brushasaurus on Chat
Gladly supporting this BB !
Posts: 8827 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Cisco.... I quoted single and double coverage for the job and the client went for double coverage. He's a pretty big construction outfit and burgundy/maroon is their color and he is aware about the lack of durability of that color so my butt is covered. Incidentally and maybe fortunately I have never used burgundy/maroon on any outdoor signs but there are a few sign in my city with auspicious spaces where maroon lettering used to be. It's a wonder one shot can't be classified an industrial specialty paint or something like that so that it could be exempted from laws made to protect the ignorant general populace. There are a lot more dangerous substances at every grocery store.
Happy Signing.....Marty
------------------ Marty Happy Happy Ad Sign & Design Regina SK, Canada
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I use a lot of 1-Shot Maroon. Its the color for our local college. While red and maroon do fade quickly I use at least 2 coats rolled on for backgrounds and it is holding up much better than the auto paint that 4 of the signs were painted with that came from another sign shop. I do all the signs there now as mine last much longer and hold there gloss for a longer time. Good luck.
------------------ Kevin L. Kleinhans Alma Signs (Signs Be Me)
Posts: 139 | From: Alma, MI USA | Registered: Dec 1999
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I would never give a choice of single or double coat on these colors that are prone to fade. Someone may chose the cheaper and then it will reflect on you and they will be unhappy. Where I started in the sign trade we always double coated these colors and that is how I always did them on my own. If the letters arent teeny tiny it shouldnt take long to double coat and should just be part of the job. I would however give a choice of a clear coat over the whole finish job.
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The ability of Maroon to hold up against UV degradation has always been a concern at One Shot. We have looked at many alternative pigment formulations over the years but have not been able to improve the basic formulation. In fact I checked the archives and the pigments used today are basically almost identical to those used 20 years ago. The suppliers of the pigments have changed through buy-outs and mergers, but from what I can tell, the chemistry is pretty much the same. Another common misconception I would like to address is the lead being removed from the 108-L Maroon has affected its quality. As long as I've been at One Shot, 24 years, there were never lead-based pigments in the 108-L Maroon, only lead driers. The alternative driers currently used are for the most part superior to the lead driers used in the past. This is one of the reasons we have stopped using lead driers at our Gary, IN production facility. One suggestion I might offer to extend the color life of maroons, violets, and reds is the use of our 4007 Hardener. Our tests have shown increased color and gloss retention when One Shot enamels are catalyzed. Hope this information helps. Kevin
------------------ Kevin Ledbetter One Shot LLC kledbett@netnitco.net http://www.1shot.com
"You've got One Shot to get it right"
Posts: 117 | From: Valparaiso, IN USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Duh - anybody paying attention here ?!?! I painted about 5 cement mixers with Maroon 1-shot about five years ago - logo's still fresh looking - so whats the big problem? Carl
------------------ Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Sonicob@aol.com
Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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Marty, I can pretty much assure you that your best effort here would be a single coat with UV clear protectant, rather than any extra coat of the paint.(I wouldn't discourage the use of an extra coat) I would in fact probably encourage the double coat on the clear and possibly consider some of that pelucid that Pierre herrolds. It sounds to be about the same material they use for rock-chip clear on the lower kick panels of trucks and auto. This might hold up well on construcion panels. Look at it this way, all you can do to stop the deterioration is to block the problem (sun), and an extra coat is only going to hold a deteriored outer layer longer. Bronzeo
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Maybe the reason the concrete trucks are holding up so well is that they are aways spinning! Seriously, Maroon last about a year in Florida, at best. Maybe we need to do some testing with different methods. One straight out of the can, one double coated, one with hardner, some other ones with different clears like pelucid.
------------------ Robert Thomas Creative Signs In Beautiful Naples, Fl.
[This message has been edited by Robert Thomas (edited June 26, 2000).]
Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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Great idea Robert. Would be interested myself in the results. Double coated definately will outlast single-coat. However, how can we do repeat business if it lasts, like, forever?? 7-10 years on a sign is a long lifetime, like, who said signs should last forever, anyway? Your thoughts on this would be welcome - Carl Sonicob@aol.com
------------------ Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Sonicob@aol.com
Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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