posted
i was doing the "how much do i need to charge?" exercise, and got to the "how many billable hours in the week?" question. i'm guessing, from other businesses i've had, that a 40 hour week would yield me 16 hours of actual, production time (a little more than three hours a day). does that seem about right? (i'm not interested in 60 hour weeks any more). i'm curious what other self-employed folks here are averaging.
------------------ :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: San Francisco :: :: don't blame me... i'm just a beginner ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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I try for 20. But there are lotsa variables.Murphy's Law is always there. Another big variable is springtime in the northeast.Everybodys wakin up coming out of hibernation ...its a grand time of year..but the sign biz will be a flurry for the next few months.
You mean, yer self employeed and dont wanna work for free?
OK..
You need to figure out how much you *need* to make and how much you *want* to make in a month.
Then decide how much you *want* to work.
I took half of how much I wanted to work then used that to get my shop rate based on how much I wanted to make.
Now based on my shop rate, I only *need* 13 billable hours per month to cover overhead plus living expenses (which I actually consider as one in the same).
My shop rate is $60/hour. I recently knocked down alot of my overhead so Im livin pretty easily. It's a snap scrapin up 13 billable hours each month. =)
------------------ Mike Pipes Digital Illusion Custom Graphics Lake Havasu City, AZ http://www.stickerpimp.com
Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I was averaging four a day, and working twelve. We found we could hire someone to answer the phone for four hours at a minimum type wage and one of my hours would cover four of hers. This gave me four hours shielded from interruptions. If I could produce two billable hours in the other eight, then I just added five hours a week to my paycheck, in the same ammount of time.
The answering of calls and dealing with everyone that walked in was eating up production time. We try to schedule when folks should call and set appointments for meetings. Managing our time is work, but helps.
I tend to slip back into the idea that letting the circumstances govern me is more in tune with Gods plan, and this thinking is ususlly counter productive. We need to take charge of our situations.
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Oh, for the faith of a spider! He begins his web without any thread.
Posts: 6806 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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just finished a job today...not mine but another sign guy....since were talkin billable hours....well simple 2 color job, and as ive told this guy before...CAMERA READY ART ....PLEASE! well as usual i get nothing but a business card. so i spent 3-4 hours yesterday scanning, redrawing, searching fonts...to no avail. i find the logo in a magizine that i had to go get from someone else, more scanning printing, then i worked from 8-11 pm last nite projecting and tracing till the bulb burn out in the projector(add $40 for replacement bulb)so i quit till this morning then i had to lay up paper and redraw and then pounce it so i could finish last sign... i just finished billing job as it should be billed as to my expenditure of time and equipment....so the job cost almost doubled from original quote...if i really charged for all the added time spent...because of no CAMERA READY ART!!!!!!!!!
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I haven't really given a lot of thought to billable hours per week, since I just price jobs by the job. The only "job" that I charge an rate for is vinyl or painted lettering removal. $50/hr to remove. No exceptions, no arguing, no haggling!
But thinking about it...I would say I am lucky if I actually "work" 3 hrs per day.
------------------ Dave Grundy AKA "applicator" on mIRC "stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!" in Granton, Ontario, Canada 1-519-225-2634 dave.grundy@quadro.net www.quadro.net/~shirley
posted
I tend to agree with Dave. I have a storefont location which has it's advantages and disadvantages. Plus I've gotten into downtown revitalization which has really helped in terms of identity, but between the distractions of phone calls and traffic I bet I'm lucky to get three hours a day four days a week to produce work in the shop.
Haven't quit figured out billable hours either. I just quote by the job and try to get it done as soon as I can.
Lots of "wasted" time in the biz seems like.
------------------ Chuck Gallagher Pro Graphics Signs by Design Cabool, MO 417.962.3291 "I grew up in Letterville"
Posts: 776 | From: Cabool, Mo. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Billable hours spoken here is not in the context of how you bid the job. We all know how much money we need to pay our expenses and keep. When we figure our shop rate and divide it into a months income, we can see that we only made four hours pay on a daily average. Its looking back on what we did. We all try to cover everything when we bid it. We need to compare the outcome to the initial expectation.
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Oh, for the faith of a spider! He begins his web without any thread.
Posts: 6806 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Great topic! I just opened a storefront, and I have the same issue... I am there at least 9 hours during the day, but seem like I get the most done when I return at night. I bet I get 3 hours out of a day that is actual production. People don't realize that just opening a file on the computer actually takes 15 minutes out of your day, think about it. You have to stop what you are doing, get readjusted to that job, find the file, open it, look at it, do the 'minor' changes, save it, log it, and then figure out where you were at 15 minutes ago. By this time the phone rings and you write down the information for a quote and try to figure this one out, by this time the plotters are sitting idle and nothing is weeded or trimmed and it just blew a half an hour...
I tried log sheets, documenting what happens during a day, but I lost the sheet within 45 minutes, so a lot of good that did.
------------------ Eric Patzer A.S.A.P. Design Lafayette, CO epatzer@earthlink.net
Posts: 208 | From: Lafayette, CO USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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We're fortunate to have an abundance of projects on the board and prospects for more on the way. Even with a full load there doesn't seem to be enough time in a day to get much done so I keep the answering machine on and if I'm in the middle of something I don't want to stop for I let the machine take the call. As most know, more than half the calls you get are solicitations for junk you don't want or need and the few that are from serious sign BUYERS can usually wait a few hours or a day or two. If they are in such a hurry they can't then I don't need to waste time on them anyway. An answering machine with a friendly and lighthearted message can do wonders for your 'billable hours', at the end of each week I figure I have 'saved' 4 to 6 hours of time that would have been interuptions and 'lost' time. So I gained a whole day of productivity by screening calls and returning them on my time schedule. Some days I can get in 6 billable hours out of 8 with the help of my little machine. My message states, "Thank you for calling Elliott Design, I'm either out working or I'm out fishing. If I'm working I'll call you back soon but if the fish are biting,,,,, DON'T hold your breath!"
BTW, How'd you get the name Scooter? My Dad knicked me 'Scootie' before I was born and it stuck with me by my family and a few friends.
------------------ Larry
Elliott Design McLemoresville, Tn.
If you can't find the time to do it right, where gonna find the time to do it over?
[This message has been edited by Larry Elliott (edited April 06, 2001).]
Posts: 486 | From: McLemoresville, TN. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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You have to know how many billable hours are available in order to determine your shop rate.
For example:
Consider a shop with an owner and one employee. Say the owner spends 4 hrs. per day on sales/administrative functions and has 4 hours available for design/production. The employee has about 2 hours of "other duties" and 6 hours for design/production.
That's 10 hours per day between you. Now, at 5 days/week, 50 weeks/year (2wks vacation), and 10 statutory holidays, you have about 240 days available.
Add up ALL the non-material costs; i.e., rent, utilities, insurance, advertising, salaries, office supplies, equipment leases, etc. Say that amounts to $100,000 for the year. No matter what, you have to bring in $100,000 to cover these costs. So, divide $100,000 by 240 days by 10 hours per day and you have $42.00 per hour for this shop's breakeven labour rate. Add to that the desired profit magin and you have your required labour rate.
This method, of course, assumes that you are not using material markup to cover any overhead costs. That is, your material markup is calculated to cover waste and profit margin only. I think a lot of us have material markups high enough to supplement some shortfall from not covering our billable hours with our shop rate.
Now, to answer your question...there are 4 of us and we figure 16 billable hours per day. One person at 8 hrs., two at 4 hours, and one at zero hours.
------------------ Diane Crowther, Metaline Graphics Ltd., Nova Scotia, Canada, ID #285
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great feedback, folks. it corresponds to what i have experienced with other businesses i've started (full-time magazine designer, motorcycle shop owner, and letterpress printer - how's that for diverse?). it sounds like if i figure on 3 hours of "production" i'll be safe (and i figure i may have a few 9 hour days to make that). i'm trying to avoid 60 hour weeks (a few weeks ok, but not 52 weeks/year!). i'm in San Francisco, yet i have really low overhead (7-1/2' ceilings... ), and i figure i need to charge about $70/hour if i want to end up with $36K "for me". this brings up the next question - what do you mark up your materials at? (i'll post this as a new topic)
------------------ :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: San Francisco :: :: don't blame me... i'm just a beginner ::
Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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I'm with Mike I figured up what it takes just to pay the overhead & what it takes to make my life a happy one, which is a minimum of $200.00 an hour. Now I live in Atlanta, Ga. BIG town everything is expensive. But on positive note a very large amount of the population are in the high income level. Also large companies with lots of money.
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