Yes, I have started a new program, but have kept it intentionally low key in hope that I could show the success of an idea that I had 2 years ago but reared it's head in a big way at this years summer meet!
As most of you know, there are heads out there that freely share their vast knowledge and some that share it for a fee...and that is great..either way!
This concept all started out with me wanting the public to be more aware of the letterheads (which some organization would be required) and then it became clear that there are some folks readily available with helping an eager student and those that aren’t. One person that I consider to be a true letterhead in every sense of the concept is Fred Self!
In this spirit, I decided that I could help in creating a situation where my peers (like Fred) that I have the utmost respect for, have the opportunity to slow down a bit in their everyday grind, enjoy their craft, and be paid to share their knowledge.
Hence... KeepersoftheCraft.com ...thanks to the permission granted by the person who coined the phrase many years ago, John Luttman of PA.
This website is for those talented individuals that would like to teach their craft and the public or anyone else that wants to learn! We have received great response and have even found interest from a national college system. I am very excited for my friends and by next year, I am confident that we will have classes offered that stretch from coast to coast...and eventually overseas.
Here is the poster for local exposure of classes given to each artist to pass out and expose the classes.
I would appreciate your support in this endeavor!
Robert
[ November 18, 2003, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Robert Beverly ]
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1023 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote: ...thanks to the permission granted by the person who coined the phrase many years ago, John Luttman of PA.
well, glad to see that base covered anyway.
I know you were one of the folks that proposed some grander levels of organization within letterheads, & had some of your ideas "shot down" more or less... so at least I can say good luck. You are showing the spirit of "if you want it done right, do it yourself" & that takes ambition.
I've heard only good things about David Butlers classes, & if you can help organize more similar opportunities under one flag, banner or moniker... more power to you.
quote:How many times have you heard, "that's a trade secret?"
Here, in Letterville? Not once.
[ November 18, 2003, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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It will succeed!...and the response that we have been getting has been great!...just got to get the schedule up and should have the first few months complete by the weekend!
oh...and John...thanks for your support too!...
Sorry you missed the point..our new site is designed to attract those folks interested in learning that have never heard of the letterheads...but lot's of letterheads will be teaching...is that not too cool!...
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1023 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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For starters - to be clear - I don't support your new venture.
Letterheads share information freely at meets and here in Letterville -- in the spirit of the movement (at least as I understand it).
It strikes me as though you're appropriating the Letterhead movement in an opportunistic attempt to profit from what already exists for free...and rationalizing the concept by making sure that a few "Good Letterheads" share in the booty.
I can tell that you believe what you're doing will somehow benefit the Letterhead movement (by drawing attention to it) and that this sort of dissent comes as a surprise.
Perhaps I (and any others who don't currently support your venture) would feel better about the whole thing if your new website actually mentioned the Letterhead movement and promoted letterhead.com / Letterville.
Instead, your new website gives the impression that there are no alternatives to the (for profit) courses you are offering...all that talk about "trade secrets" and so on.
I (for one) would love to see a splashy graphic that says "Get out to a meet and learn it for free!" and "Click here for Letterville -- the online meet that never ends!" (Do you really even need your own bulletin board?)
Isn't at least some credit for the knowledge and techniques that you plan to share (for profit) due to some free information shared at a meet or online by another "Keeper of the Craft"?
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Am I missing something here? I don't see anywhere that says pay for a workshop. Even if it did, so what. A lot of people are going to the Butler workshops for $495 and no one is busting his balls. He is a true Letterhead as well.
Some of you need to shut (edit) up! I can't even come to Letterville to get away from it all anymore. My 4 year old is more mature than most of you idiots.
Robert, I for one look at this BB and many others related to Letterheads as well as the sign idustry, autoart or anything else remotely related and will keep up with your new venture to see what happens. Good luck to ya!
And one more thing... Jon Aston, you are the rudest merchant I've ever seen. I don't know why anyone would want to work with you or your company based on your level of professionalism.
**Edited to remove foul language. I let my guard down and wasted my time and energy letting the idiots get to me. My views remain the same. Some of you are just plain jerks! Now I'm back to my happy life!
[ November 19, 2003, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Amy Brown ]
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Amy's right, I don't see ANYWHERE on that site that says "Send us Money to join workshops", in fact I only see mention of obtaining sponsors, which is possibly to offset the cost of workshops so students could participate as inexpensively as possible - something that's very important if you want to target younger people or college students.
Even if the workshops did cost money, so what?
There are lots of people in this trade who charge for their workshops, and as Amy puts it - No one is busting their balls about it - and that's a GOOD thing!
The problem when you offer free training is everyone gets in on it, and nobody respects the knowledge they walk away with, thus you get price slashers and underbidders. I dont care what type of work is being done, it could be vinyl or it could be the finest glue chipped projects, if there is little to no cost or investment to get into it, there are going to be people offering cut-throat prices.
I can guarantee you the people who pay $495 for a Butler workshop or $300 for Shep's woodgraining class (only for example here) are going to think twice before giving their work away given what it cost them to learn the skill... and why should Butler or Shep offer a free class, take on 30 people at once, and essentially create THEIR OWN competitors?
The only problem I see with Robert's plan is the "en mass" aspect with colleges getting involved. It's already been proven that Art colleges are cranking out "Fine Artists", "Graphic Designers", "Sculptors" and other artists by the pound, who offer extremely cheap prices so they can build a portfolio.. and there are so many newbies that customers don't have to stick with one artist when they decide to grow up and increase their rates because there will be another cheap one with just as much talent right around the corner.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, Amy...including you and including me.
I don't see how the post above was "rude". On the contrary, I thought I was quite civil and constructive, actually. If anything, perhaps I have been presumptuous. If I have been, I would hope that Robert will set me straight.
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Thanks guys for posting...and keeping this up there for other folks to see!
Amy...thank you
Mike-The instructors are coming in from all aspects of life...of which only a handful are familiar with the letterheads...of which they are Keepers of the Craft as well!...OH and one more thing!...
The college system I speak of is only doing digital graphics work...they see this as a way of increasing their graphical program...but I have exclusive control...and they will provide the facilities (8 across the country) for a fee. They help to promote the classes and we control the intinerary...they make nothing off the classes or dictate policy.
The classes will cost money to attend!
and lastly, Jon, it's ok, I think our signatures tell the whole story...
[ November 19, 2003, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Robert Beverly ]
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1023 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Seems to me that you almost always pay something, somehow for training. Be it going to a Letterhead Meet, Carving, Woodgraining, Photoshop Seminars and workshops, apprenticeships generally have you working for no pay or next to it, there are still sign trade vocational programs available. Paying and charging for training is an acceptable venture, and it's nothing new.
Sure, most topics can be, and are, touched on at a Meet. But, there is quite a bit that you can't fit into a long weekend. Some of us would love the opportunity to attend more intensive workshops to add to our sign building arsenal.
If I could afford to apprentice with someone, or do a full 2-year sign course at Butera, I would in a heartbeat. But, I can't. Workshops may be the only way to get the full attention, intense training I would like to get, in affordable (hopefully) chunks. I am eagerly awaiting more info on Robert's undertaking. He has managed to get some pretty impressive folks on board for this setup.
Good Luck.
-------------------- Joe Endicott NEXCOM (Navy Exchange Service Command) Signing Programs Specialist Virginia Beach, VA jeendicott@msn.com
"I want to be Stereotyped....I want to be Classified." Posts: 681 | From: Virginia Beach, VA USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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My signature seems to speak to ambitious do-it-yourselfers to.
Contrary to one of Jon's comments, I think Robert knew full-well that some of us would offer dissenting opinions. On a different day I most likely would have, because I think, on many topics, it is possible to find both good & bad things to say that would both be ones "honest opinion" But this is not a different day.
posted
I've spoken with Robert Beverly a couple times on the phone and found him to be very helpful as well as honest, not that anyone really gives a sh-t what I think. But if I were to put him or anyone else down for striking out on their own, then this site wouldn't mean diddley to anyone who read it religiously.
Not everyone that associates with this site is a true Letterhead, that includes me. I do however give my opinions, though many take it as a flame, I guess it all depends on where you're standing and what you're standing for.
I applaud Robert Beverly for his thoughts as well as his fowardness to enlighten others in regards to this craft. The wanna-bees of said trade who do nothing but gripe and look for their heros to save them are a friggin joke. The Letterhead movement as some would call it, was not invented by persons sitting on their arse or typing to one website while putting another site down. Honesty is sometimes brutal.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
Whoa, Whoa! It looks like some folks believe that they have been annointed with God given right to receive. If you can read your way to skill, then perfection would be much easier to acheive. Hell, I'd never have to do those irritating penny ante jobs fro all those a-holes and, I can jump right away to the big money jobs. How sweet!!! BullCrap!!! Brother John, I'm a little disappointed in ya, man. Some dues are going to be paid for some parts of the trip, so folks should expect to pay for a ticket to ride. It just makes sense if you plan on reaching your goal and not be left mingling,lost among the masses. Go for it Robert. You've put up some good example of artist. Each of those people work and sacrificed to acheive their level of excellence. Sure they attend meets and are willing to share knowledge there. Or may even be willing to accomadate a request outside of a meet, but if they offer their knowledge in an organized classroom enviroment, why not allow them determine a value for this time and knowledge. Then you yourself can determine if you see that as a reasonable value for that knowledge.
posted
Good Luck Robert, I am looking forward to more information, I think when this takes off, you can post on SEGDTalk, that way designers like myself, can take advatage of the info, and maybe partner with artisans who specialize in these techniques.
Rick
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Thanks for keeping this post out of the garbage!
I just got off the phone with a gallery in Dallas that was contacted last week and they have a very cool setup...not only do they have a location in the arts district, but they also have an online artist referral program as well as a full blown glicee reproduction facility!
THEY ARE INTERESTED!...in hosting as well as working with artists to understand their printing process...and networking artist work...giving seminars on how an artist goes about promoting their work...they mainly deal with work going into corporate and hotel environments!
Just the kind of news I wanted to hear to add to the program!...and I was as excited as they were!!
now down to the negotiations!...LOL
That is what it is all about!
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1023 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Robert's idea is way past due in this trade as not many seem to apprenticeship in order to learn. Seems like there are Leaders.Then there are Followers. Thanks for leading the way Robert
-------------------- PKing is Pat King The Professor of SIGNOLOGY Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Good going Robert. As far as I'm concerned, any movement towards the continuing search for knowledge in our field is more than welcome. The fact that they will charge for the classes is irrelevant. Nothing is free!
Now, put yourself in the shoes of one of these instructors. How many countless hours did one put to "master" a certain technique? His reward for this time *should* be compensated. The learning curve is greatly reduced when shown how; again, time saved. And we all know how valueable time is.
Over the years, I've taught myself many techniques relating to our field. Throughout this time, these processes consumed most of my life. Yes, it consumed it with a single purpose; to better my life. To be an Artist. This cannot be accomplished in a single weekend workshop, nor, will you walk away a "master". It will however, teach you the basics, and some advanved skills needed to further your *own* education.
Trial and error. How does this relate? To fully understand this method, one must try something new, and execute it. During the process, errors arise. Solutions must be implemented, and the ladder continues.
During instruction,(letterhead class) error is anticipated, and compensated during trial, thus leaving error to a minimum. This inturn, reduces the learning curve. For instance, when I first started screenprinting, I would hand-cut film, and chemically adhear it to the screen. Hours. Now, I flood a screen with a photo reactive polymer, and "burn it"(expose) using a transparency. Minutes. It did however, take a long time to figure this out.
So, whats my point? Those of you who say, "I can't even draw a strait line", or vinyl jockies, who just do straight copy... Try something new. Pick up a brush, or add some leaf to a sign; once you get the hang of it, you'll get good real fast. All it takes is practice.
"Even Mike Stevens wasn't any good when he first picked up a brush."
>>>Robert -If you need an instructor in any number of given techniques; I'm in.
-Rich
<< Sorry about being so winded. What Jon said, got under my skin.
"Good Luck."
-------------------- Richard Bustamante Signs in the Pines www.signsinthepines.com Posts: 781 | From: Nevada City, California | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
An anology 'just a few years ago the self defense industry was a lot like the sign industry. No one would talk to any one. Every group thought theirs was the best.
Actually they were all good but very primitive in their marketing. Some m were so full of ego they couldnt see anything else as valid. Some hated others they never met. (sound familiar?) Nearly all centers were mere hobby shops barely paying the owners. Then one person made a move out of the box and made a few changes. Suddenly, many who before were struggling are now making a great living.
The only change he made was to start meetings where every one would get together with out ego's and share. One group is now over 1,500 members strong and nearly all are doing well. In fact many are grossing over $300,000 a year. Some are grossing over 60,000 a month. This is not chicken feed folks.
Now there are several lead groups with thousands of members meeting all over the country. Rising tides raises all boats.
Back to the sign industry. Roberts idea may be another addition to the letterheads. It will increase interest and ultimatly lead others here. This is fact.
There are 6 yellow pages of sign shops here and none of them post here that I know of. If roberts sites does well it could mean that one more from each town comes to this BBS and make this one even greater.
Any path to grow is good. Its all about vision. Isn't that what a letterhead is all about?
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
you know quite a few years ago I found that I was on the telephone just about all day long (instead of working) helping people with their coreldraw problems, I did this happily cause I believe in the letterhead spirit of sharing
after devo heard me say the same thing for the 10th time in one day to someone new who needed help he said, this has got to stop!
he arranged for the next 5 people who rang looking for answers to all get together in one room for the weekend so that I could say things once, witht he added bonus of them having their screens right in front of them and me being abe to not only tell them but show them the tricks I'd learnt
it organised my time and efforts without interuption to anyones work day, and yes we charged a fee for the weekend workshops which as was mentioned above, gave people a greater push to listen learn without wasting my time or their money
it was a win, win situation with lots of people benifiting over the years
good luck Robert, I hope it all works out for you
*note... just my 2 cents worth
cheers gail
-------------------- Gail & Dave Hervey Bay Qld Australia
gail@roadwarriorproducts.com.au
sumtimes ya just gota! Posts: 794 | From: 552 O'Regans Creek Rd Toogoom Qld 4655 Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Bravo Robert! Anything that is going to further the education and fuel the creative fires of future Sign Artists has to be a great idea.
-------------------- Terry Baird Baird Signs 3484 West Lake Rd. Canandaigua, NY 14424 Posts: 790 | From: Canandaigua, New York | Registered: Dec 2002
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-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I still think what you're doing is great! I once again apologize for being rude by calling someone else rude on your post.
Jon,
I still feel it is your duty as a merchant to proceed with caution when posting. I apologize for my commments but not my opinion. You are entitled to yours just as much as I am mine.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
I too agree that it is a wonderful idea Robert. Push on buddy. Amy, you're my hero.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
The Letterhead Movement was born in a different era. It was the late 70's. Many of the original 7 were young men in their 20s just starting out. The only thing on their minds was a comman passion for their trade. And perhaps the occasional woman, drink, smoke or Grateful Dead tune. Remember those days?
As time went by Hippies became Yuppies. The responsibilties of a family, mortgage, and paying the bills have a way of stealing the dreams and ideals of our youth. We begin to recognize how vulnerable our bodies are to age and disease.The thought occurs that we may not be able continue doing what we do forever. For the first time we find ourselves paying attention to TV commercials about financial planning and retirement. Yuk!
Some of us have very special skills and knowledge that people are willing to pay for. Mike Stevens, Ken Millar and several others have offered courses over the years. Some were successful and some didn't pan out. Those of us who chose to attend these paid workshops got much more than we paid for, but I never considered them a Letterhead function. Still don't.
Call me an unrealistic romantic, but my idea of Letterheads is still based on my first meet back in 1983. You paid your way to the meet, but the exchange of information was free. Everyone was in the same boat. At any given point the teacher became a student and the student found themselves teaching. I hope that never changes.
Now having said that, I see nothing wrong with private workshops. It's very gratifying to see so mnay taking advantage of the David Butler Workshop. I plan on taking it myself. As long as we live in a capitalist society it is our duty to indulge in keeping it alive. Right? Then why do so many of us have a hard time with the idea of ourselves or others making a buck?
I want to wish Robert good luck in his venture. He's going to take some heat. Anytime someone chooses to stick their head above the crowd someone is going to toss a tomato at them. The secret is to catch that tomato, convert it into ketchup and sell it back to the tosser at a profit. At the end of the day, people will decide with their wallets if this is a good idea or not.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
ok it seems as if Jon is taking a lot of heat for his views and position. I for one can see his point of view
From what I read, Jon is not against the furthering of the craft through teaching, but that he is concerned about how it is done and to whose benefit.
I'm not taking sides yet folks, for I will let this play out, I am a little confused over this whole thing. But lets not turn Jon's post into a lynch mob just because you don't have the same views or the same perspective he has. Obviously Jon is coming at this with a different perspective than yours.
why don't you ask Jon why he has his views rather than stab him in the back and label him with vile names.
I for one thought he was civil in his post.
I see some folks jumping on the lynch mob band wagon who just yesterday complained about the other head bashing. So what have we come to, either blow smoke up some ones Butt or be flogged?
seems to me the game is still the same just the players have changed
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I don't understand why Robert's idea is the slightest bit controversial. I have attended 3 national Letterhead meets. Some were more expensive than others, but I learned tricks and techniques, had the fires of creativity rekindled, and helped others with little things I've learned along the way.
But at none of the meets, did I learn a technique with the intensity that can come from a paid workshop. These types of workshops cannot be put together cheaply, and I feel that if through a lifetime of learning, one becomes proficiant enough to teach at that level, they should be compensated for it.
These "Keepers of the Craft" type workshops are not Letterhead meets and will never replace Letterhead meets. In my opinion they simply another alternative to learning our craft. There shouuld be no question that there is plenty of room for both.
Robert, good luck to you and your venture. The only problem I see is an incomplete understanding of your concept, which you explained to me on the phone a little more thoroughly than you did in your post.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I'm just kissing up in hope that Robert becomes a Merchant like Dave Butler. Where can you get the word out on new ventures better than Letterville? If you know a good supplier, tell them about Letterville.
This is a paid anouncement from the nice people at Letterville.
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
Things don't have to be one or the other, in a case like this, why not both?
What ever happened to the spirit of experimenting? I like experimenting,(except with food). I myself have a couple of other irons in the fire, I'd like them to succeed, but even if they don't, I won't go to the grave wondering:"I wonder what could've happened with THAT idea. Go for it Robert.
Some ideas start with one intention, then grow into something else. We'll only know by trying/watching.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Ok,maybe it's just me..but 35 or so posts into this,outside of a few people p*ssing and moaning back and forth and a supposed explanation I'm no closer to understanding what exactly this is and see what benefit this is to anyone other than to perhaps be a merchant here. ???? No,I don't see anywhere on there where there's a $$$ charge for a workshop,class etc but I also don't see any of those things listed either so it kinda makes it hard to decipher. I would also want to know why a couple of people who put on a few of the best meets around in an effort to share information freely would suddenly get involved in something like this that they should& would obviously be compensated for? Will that not present a huge conflict of interest and kinda toss a wrench into the monkey? Whats going to be offered where or held back where?
Sorry but I think Jon Aston made the best point here and everyone will overlook it and demonize him and because he didnt jump on the tony robbins-esque bandwagon we like to ride to its death around here sometimes,and if anyone took 3 seconds to read it he didnt rip Robert like everyone was quite willing to do him,he just didn't immediately yell praise from a rooftop since it's apparent his not knowing exactly what the hell was being said. Thats called a dissenting opinion...and while not popular here,people do have em and i can guarantee his isnt the only one,just noone is gonna dare post one now since the tables have obvioulsy flopped in the other direction.For the record i'm neither a supporter or naysayer at this point mostly because like Jon,after reading it and looking at the site i can't see exactly what's intended to do or how people are gonna be drawn to it. What puts a negative spin on things for me is the "looking for sponsors"......I can tell you first hand that once sponsorship gets involved thru contribution of materials or $$$$$ or further training on their dime.....you say/teach what they want you to,period,or them and their $$$$ goes bye bye,so in the end you wind up promoting their agenda more than your own whether you realize it or not. That doesn't happen when they send stuff to a 'meet' where they know 20 people are getting together for $30/head for sh*ts and giggles....but when they know you have 20 people coming,a "industry name" conducting the seminar and all these people are paying X amt of $$ to attend....you're starting to get the picture....been down this road many many many many times,too many not to know how it turns out. Sorry but almost every school/workshop/seminar/video series you can attend in the automotive industry nowdays holds the promise of education and works under the guise of a clever little marketing scheme designed to brainwash you into using their product....you don't come away with the craft,you come away believeing the only way to do something is to use a certain material,the craft you still have to go back and learn on your own. Bringing in trade schools and colleges is no different,they wanna push what they want students to learn and that doesn't necessarily have to be "the correct way" or the right way,or even what you want to teach,long as it fits their cirriculum...remember...they're getting paid to produce designers and whatever else they call themselves and thats priority #1 to em...been down that road too.
Now before I get a bunch of people telling me how wrong I am or refusing to read anything else i post,I saw a couple of people mention David Butler...David Butler works for himself and is teaching you a skill that comes from within yourself..you dont need anything but your brain...and thats completely a world removed from an enviroment that has any kind of corporate/buisness/private sponsorship and involves outside materials. Think about it instead of p*ssing and moaning like the world depends on whether or not everyone agrees 100% or not.
-------------------- Gavin Chachere Plotter in the garage,New Orleans La.
"Sgts Shugart and Gordon again request permission to rope down to crash site two" Posts: 1223 | From: new orleans.la. | Registered: Mar 2000
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Gavin............It's good to see not everyone falls into the "Blind Sheep' catagory.....!! It's unfortunate when someone has a real question, they are met with everything but an answer.........
I too looked over that site for longer than I really wanted to.....and I have a number of questions..................I certainly didn't see anything of value.
But I don't generally follow the herd either......
Good Post Gavin............
......cj
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
If there is someone available to somehow explain better what the program is to those who don’t understand, I would appreciate it!
YES - Artists will be PAID to teach what they have spent many years to learn.
YES* - We will have sponsors (WHICH I AM EXTREMELY PLEASED WITH)and they will not dictate anything (ONLY ADVISE)...but something happened this last summer that I thought I should throw in to those always looking for something for free that is noted at the end!
YES - We are going to spread these workshops out to all areas of the United States
YES - I am going to be very particular who teaches and where these classes will be taught.
YES - The site is mine and I control the entire situation!!!!!
YES - I will not allow anyone on the bb that has nothing else to do but to make negative or non productive comments...PERIOD!...and if that means it comes down to a select few...fine!
YES - The above comment applies to several that grace this board.
YES - It is already a success because the response has been phenomenal!
YES - I do not know the status of my particular meet but have the right to have it or not.
YES - I am available to answer any questions anyone has regarding this topic or even an email address that works...funny how you can post here but can’t ask me by email for further clarification!...gosh...I will even post my 800 number.
And after our meet this past summer, it has been my rule of thumb to send a thank you letter along with a couple of meet t-shirts as a way of saying thanks to the sponsors and this was the reply given by a big supporter and established company...
“Thanks for the 2 -T-shirts! In all the years we have given away door prizes, you are the first ones to send us a T-shirt. That means a lot!”
Food for thought!
Robert
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1023 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Does a "faculty" exist at present? If so can you list it?
What about "follow up"...how would a person contact the faculty staff for on going information or problems inccccurred after the class?
Since some of this faculty would come from Art academia would degrees be presented on completion?
Will this program be acredited?
How many classes a year do you anticipate?
Since this is not a non profit program, what percentage of it is tax deductible?
Are each of the faculty members paying you a percentage of their take or are you paying the faculty staff.
I'm not trying to be subversive ...these are just some legitimate questions I think need to be answered so a person can decide if the program is right for them.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
Monte You have asked legitimate questions!...and I will answer them as best I can!
1.Does a "faculty" exist at present? If so can you list it?
I am listing those that are going to teach on the website.
2.What about "follow up"...how would a person contact the faculty staff for on going information or problems inccccurred after the class?
This was the reason that I placed a bulletin board on the site! For those students to communicate with those teachers and suppliers without putting a burden on someones phone bill and time. This also will eradicate long distance issues
Since some of this faculty would come from Art academia would degrees be presented on completion?
We are not presently accredited...and folks like Fred that have a great deal of talent but no degree are able to offer their knowledge.
Will this program be acredited?
Not at this time nor do I see it going in that direction. We are here to teach a craft much like a guild. I know tons of extremely talented people that have no degree.
How many classes a year do you anticipate?
This whole idea came about when I felt the loss of Rick Glawson. I went to Fred and told him he better take care of himself so we don't loose another talented artist! I could not help Fred set up a program from Arlington therefore I created this idea. The classes will be expanded to be hosted in others workshops across this country and I see Fred teaching classes as often as he wishes in each location he chooses...and other artists like Joey Hutson, Robert Nouis, Rebel Dowdle will do the same and I see the list growing everyday!
Since this is not a non profit program, what percentage of it is tax deductible?
That will be determined.
Are each of the faculty members paying you a percentage of their take or are you paying the faculty staff.
We, the advisory committee has decided that I will handle all scheduling, marketing, and misc. responsibilities. They will be compensated well for their time and travel expenses, but all funds will come thru the main office here and be dispersed accordingly...and yes...I will make money off of it!
I hope that addresses your questions...as said earlier, the cat was let out of the bag! This workshop series was never intended to be targeted to the "letterheads" It was to be targeted to the public at large! but anyone is welcome to attend...and the there are telented letterheads that I want to have teach!...I attended a seminar at Joey's in airbrushing...and PAID for it...and would do it again!!!!!
I have been working on this for months. The workshop series will begin the weekend after the meet in Houston, cuz we all want to attend! and the opening act will be Fred Self teaching a gold leaf workshop here in Arlington. The following weekend, we have Fred scheduled in OK City for the same gold workshop, and Rebel will be at my location teaching a workshop on airbrushing...and so on...
Yes....I have a wish list of people that have made a positive contribution to the industry that I am inviting to join in teaching...but they come from all art disciplines...and they LOVE the idea!
I hope that helps clarify things.
-------------------- Robert Beverly Arlington, Texas Posts: 1023 | From: Arlington, Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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