OK, so I'm the new guy in town and I'm asking for mercy and compassion... yeah right. Anyway, I am going to ask for a favor from you guys if that's OK with you. I am presently employed in a sign shop which is primarily a sand blasted/vinyl type business. The business is not doing too well therefore with the encouragement of my wife, family and friends I am considering taking the BIG step towards being self employed. My background is primarily based in vinyl graphics design and fabrication with some experience in sandblasting. I feel that this area is needing some new and fresh ideas due to the ever expanding tourist trade and partly due to a lack of creativity in the sign trade in this area. Everybody in the sign business in this area does vinyl and the company I work for is the only sandblasted sign producer in town. I want to consider getting into CNC routed signs as well as digital printing. My employer feels that these areas of signmaking won't sell here but I feel that if I can produce a few carved/routed type signs and get them out there that the idea will take off. You know, the old "build it and they will come" attitude. What I am really asking for is some advice towards getting started on my own. I have a lot of fresh ideas plus the enthusiasm for the task but not the foggiest idea where to start.
Any advice and or direction from you veterans of the sign industry will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Rick Haywood
-------------------- Rick Haywood High Country Signs Waynesville, NC Posts: 12 | From: Waynesville, NC | Registered: Mar 2003
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but do you have cash?? cause that's a big part of it right there...getting into digital and cnc is no low cost thing and the learning curve is huge...and make sure you do your homework b4 you buy either one...there's always some salesperson that's gonna blow sunshine up your a$$ and tell you that it's easy and you'll make tons. a business background will help...does your wife have a good job with benefits? (another thing that's important) i don't want to discourage you but there's alot to this business if you plan flying solo...self discipline is key. if you've got the will, drive, talent and means then go for it..it's a great life.
[ March 30, 2003, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Enthusiasm is great............!! Experience is even Greater...........!!
But if you don't have the Start-up Capitol, AND OPERATING CAPITOL for at least 1 year to 18 months.......the first two will most likely become academic.......!!
Why is the shop you're working for not doing good.....??
..........cj
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
You sound like a brave guy! It's a big step to go on your own.
I would certainly encourage you having been self employed for the last 3 decades and enjoying ALL those years.
And if you are in a tourist area the chance for you to sell upscale work is greater.
Be a specialist in quality work. (I don't do anything else and send lots of folks down the road to get the 'bargain' they are seeking) Start with your own showspace, truck, stationary and portfolio. Let these things reflect the type of work you are seeking. Customers will seek you out based on what they hear & see of you in the community.
The equipment you speak of doesn't come cheap. But those are cool tools which allow a wonderful opportunity to create some wild signs.
I assume you have great design skills, people skills, accounting, management and organizational skills - all required for a thriving business. Count on it taking up to three years to get on your feet. (That's before you make any real money in your biz) It does take this long, and that's if you really hustle!
Pay the tax man before all others. Pay all the other folks you owe money (suppliers and such) before you pay yourself.
Charge enough to do all this and set some money aside for reinvestment in new and replacement tools and equipment.
Keep your chin up and always show a positive attitude in public. Be a "CAN DO" type of guy. If you are known for providing creative solutions people will come to you with cool projects.
Don't forget your family and the reason you are doing this.
HAVE FUN through it ALL!
Good luck to you!
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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My suggestion is before investing in CNC routers and digital printers that you start with a great design station equiped with the best software. Farm out the production.
There are probably lots of shops outside of your marketing area but a reasonable drive that have routers and would welcome wholesale work. For digital printers, go to Express Graphics who is right there in NC.
Having worked in that area for almost 20 years I know exactly what you are talking about. Seems that there would be a really good market for that type of signage up there. The problem I always encountered was getting anyone to pay the price I asked for anything of that sort. I wasn't really in the sign business up there, but I did do a few signs on the side as I was airbrushing t-shirts.
I had in my mind for quite a while that I might open a sign shop in the area, but after trying to sell a few here and there I decided I would be better off coming back home and doing it here. I just couldn't get the people there to see the value of a sign for some reason. There are few people anywhere that understand what a sign will do for their business, very few. They all want one, but as long as it has the name and phone number on it they aren't concerned with looks.
Good luck and I hope you can do well with it. I'm sure sandblasted stuff in the right place there will do good. I'd just worry about getting the right money for it. It's definitely something you'll have to educate the customer about. Hope you do great!
See ya, R.T.
-------------------- R.T.Thomas,AirDesigns/Sign And Airbrush Studio rtart1@earthlink.net
Hattiesburg,MS 39401 Shop 601-584-1000 Cell 601-310-5901 Proud supporter of LETTERVILLE!
"Ahhhhhh.......Juicy Fruit." Posts: 547 | From: Hattiesburg,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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The vendor idea sounds reasonable, but I don't know much about it. What I do know is that in a tourist area, a sign is "mega" important. What else do the tourists have to go by? Businesses in tourist areas often don't build a reputation and client base. It's that first visual impression thing, in a big way. Also, consider if it's foot traffic they'll be dealing with. If so, the signs can be alot more "fancy", maybe smaller copy, and so on. If I wanted to educate a customer in that kind of area, I'd think about these things. Jim.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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I've been in this business only 3 years now. It is just recently been leaning towards "taking off" . I own and operate several other phases of my art/design business, which pick up the slack. Actually the reason that I leaned this direction (sign trade), is because it is a more versatile business for an eventual buyer, than anything else that I do, and everyone needs to feel that they are building a fixed asset.
Anyway, with a total of 33 years of self employment, I would suggest one thing for sure. Choose whether you want to become a production shop, or a sign craftsman. I would love to own a CNC along with a lot of other devices, but putting the time and dedication into operating one to make money will take you maybe far from the craft that you enjoy. You need to keep one busy, otherwise farm out the work to another shop. I carve, as opposed to rout, because I enjoy it more, and really like the hand hewn appearance. If I had a lot of the same output to perform, I would probably farm out to a CNC router. I just spent 7 years in an atmosphere of production in screen printing, and although one project paid over a million dollars, it became the seven least interesting years of my career. I also have a stockpile of large format equiptment left over,that is very difficult to sell.
A vinyl cutter will prove itself many times over in the trade, and that is one of the few machines, that I would definitely not be without. You can prep the designs and farm out your blasting also. I would guess that unless you are turning out over 30 sandblasted signs a year that I would go that way. Most of the tools that you will really need to compete are going to fit into a 10,000.00 budget. You may already own a few of these. This BB will give you a lot of good advice on purchases, before a salesman gets to you. It has already saved me tons of mishaps.
I have another line of business that you might consider to go along with your signmaking venture. It is a low cost startup, and requires approx. the same skills, and tools. I'm not selling anything here, just am willing to share a business plan for no cost,if you should be interested. Just e-mail me, if you are. Good luck on your decisions. Jack
-------------------- "Don't change horses in midstream, unless you spot one with longer legs" bronzeo oti Jack Davis 1410 Main St Joplin, MO 64801 www.imagemakerart.com jack@imagemakerart.com Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000
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Greetings from sunny Michigan! Everybody is giving great advise. We started as an installer of catalog and roll stock graphics for dealerships. I found a good out source for cut vinyl. Then, we bought a plotter and software. Then, we out sourced Edge work. Now we have one. Currently we out source CNC work. We will have one when our outsource exceeds what a payment would be. Thebiggest thing in outsource is to buy far enough away so as not to support your competition. Contact the person you would buy the cnc from, and ask them for a reliable person to use until you buy your own. I highly reccomend Advantage Sign Supply. 800-522-3698. Their tech support is UNMATCHED. Be realistic and be content with slow progress.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3486 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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