posted
Now before anyone starts hollerin' at me, this is for an authorized dealer for the Indian Motorcycle. I have tried to contact the Indian Company, but they have failed to respond. Any help will be most appriciated.
David Ace Signs
-------------------- David Otero Ace Signs 5445 Edith Blvd. NE - Unit B Albuquerque, NM Posts: 70 | From: Albuquerque, NM USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I'm not gonna holler at ya, well sorta but, any authorized dealer of anything, be it motorcycles, footwear or chainsaws should already have any necessary artwork at their disposal, it's part of the deal. If an authorized dealer can't come up with the logo, there's a problem and it's not yours.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
I think George lives in the world where "He" does "His" job......and the people he does the job for, should do theirs.......
I've been playin in the paint since the mid 50s, and I only went for that game from a customer a few times, and that was a Loooonnnnngggggg time ago !! For some reason...it's "NEVER" right when you do it that way.
I still do a "LOT" of work for some pretty big name people, and they give me "CAMERA READY" artwork if they want any logo stuff........and guess what??? Once they understand this is the way you do things.....you'd be suprised how quick they get their act together.....!!
Jerry........If you've been going for your customers having you do their job since 1952........well. But if you like to work that way......Knock yerself out....
I will "ONLY" reproduce a logo from the customers artwork.....and it ain't gonna be off no napkin, or shipping box....!! Camera ready or get someone else...!!
........cj
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
posted
Dear Fairy Painter.... I'm with George.... The professional artisans of today no longer do "whatever it takes" to get the job. Us artisans are trying to bolster up the guidelines that if you are in a retail business, you should have at your disposal camera ready artwork of the merchandise that you sell. It is not OUR responsilility to chase down the artwork of THEIR products. As for me ..... my next restoration project is a 1948 Indian Chief and I look forward to reproducing the logo myself onto the bike. Maybe with the help of Mr. Perkins and his excellent craftsmanship in goldwork. As for your question...... put the responsibility on the shoulders of the dealer.... Nuff said !!
[ February 25, 2003, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: John Smith ]
-------------------- John Smith Kings Bay Signs (Retired) Kissimmee, Florida Posts: 817 | From: Central Florida - The Sunshine State | Registered: Jan 2000
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With any of the customers I have dealt with, the bottom line (and that is all the way across the board with any level) is that the customer needs to get that artwork for you. I have mostly worked on smaller level than some but I also agree with you.
Not only do you get the artwork from the customer as it should be, camera ready, but they can't blame you as mentioned for anything (since it came from them and is "the way it should be"
I firmly believe that the customer should tow their part of the line, so that we as artists/craftspeople/business persons can get on with what we are paid for (and on that note, they probably wouldn't appreciate or pay for the time and hassle for us to obtain the artwork).
Finally, last but not least, we surely can benefit from commanding professionalism from the beginning by sticking to our guns on this, getting a great start to a good business relationship. As true as it is that we should please our customers, the effort should be in the actual execution of the work. I was recently offered a job in which the customer wants me to digitize their hand drawn artwork and then run copies off to sell. It is for a low-rider club. I just don't know, but will consider if they are hard edge copies, and linear drawings; but that is a bit different than an Indian motorcycle logo,which is a trademark already in existence, a different philosophy. I still may not do it if the quantity is not enough to make it worth my while, or I may design the artwork myself. It will be original though if I am duplicating it to be on the safe side.
[ February 24, 2003, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Deb Fowler ]
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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Some peaple just dont understand the rewards to standing up for yourself with a customer.If you kiss a customers butt all the time they will not give you the respect that you deserve. They will take advantage of you everytime. I dont ever remember ever asking for that advise but I am sure glad someone gave it to me in the past. Thanks John George and CJ there are young punks that listen to you much valued advise.
-------------------- Ryan Young Indocil Art & Design indocil@comporium.net 803-980-6765
I highjacked Letterville!! Winter Muster 2004 Posts: 904 | From: Rock Hill, SC | Registered: Sep 2001
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I remember a few months ago when this exact same request came up and several people posted Indian logos from different times. My, how we change.
IMHO a professional should be able to take whatever he gets and make magic with it. The local magazine store should have a motorcycle mag with Indian logos in it, that's where I got mine.
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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Now Mr. Languein has it right. In our shop we take pride in customer service, meaning we provide service to our customers without a higher-than-mighty chip on our shoulder. If they have no artwork, no problem. We can get that logo setup in the computer for you for an additional $125. If you've got camera ready artwork, great! your gonna save some bucks! We prefer to do more work than necessary because that means we're gonna make more money.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 913 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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If you want to that's cool, if you wanna make magic well, go for it! But, if you don't, then let the customer fetch it, just make sure you are happy with your decision, no matter what, life is too short!
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Back when I was pretty new to this board I asked about a Harley Davidson logo., Now, I said new to the board, not to the sign business, & I knew that harley was right up there with Disney re: activly enforcing their rights to their property. But, although the new dealership here in Maui, had a million dollar brand new building full of Harley's, Audi's, Vespa's, Kawasaki Jet skis etc. etc. They did not have any camera ready artwork.
I got plenty of responses such as the above, although mostly about copyrights rather then signshop owner rights. I did, however, get email's from at least 2 folks with all the artwork required on the job, along with humorous apologies for the other overzealous 'heads replies.
My client wanted to write a big check for a deposit & whatever it cost to have me locate, buy, redraw, or otherwise aquire the artwork was fine with them. They wanted to get back to selling motorcycles. If they could tell me they need a sign with a Harley logo, they figured the rest was my job. Fine with me since they were willing to pay.
I know for a fact other shops wanted that account, but I got it & have done several thousand dollars worth of work since then, so I'm glad I didn't lose that by telling them where their job ends & mine begins
posted
Deb pointed something out about artwork provided by the company being "correct" . Good point. If you get the artwork on your own and somethings wrong you may be regretting you went out of your way. A few years back I got called by the local drag strip at the last minute to do a bunch of signs to replace some that were done by another shop for a national event. These were for the sponsor of the event , Castrol. Seems like Castrol had recently made a very minor change in their logo. I'm pretty good with letterforms and I could barely see the difference in the "a" that was changed. The company rep had no trouble spotting it though, That one made me a lot of money but cost somebody a ton. The track had the ad slicks, the other shop never picked them up I just can't believe a licensed dealership of ANY product doesn't have or can not obtain his own product logo ( licensed ) easier than I can. I've got a Harley logo on a disc containing a whole lot of logos. I also have a letter somewhere from a law firm telling me I can't use a lot of these logos. Nope, I'm gonna keep on asking the customer for the artwork. If that means I've got an attitude of some sorts , so be it.
A guy calls about having me paint a picture of his Grandmother on the deck lid of his car. "Can you do it?" Sure you got a picture? "No, you'll have to get that yourself"
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
Thats the key word pay. I think the issue is more of the customer not wanting to pay for your time to get the logo. I will go far out of the way to provide customer service as long as I am compensated in a reasonable fashion. They will also need to alow me the extra time to produce the logo and submit a sample to them for approval.
-------------------- Ryan Young Indocil Art & Design indocil@comporium.net 803-980-6765
I highjacked Letterville!! Winter Muster 2004 Posts: 904 | From: Rock Hill, SC | Registered: Sep 2001
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Google image search will supply you with hundreds of options. From early logos to present.
-------------------- Terry Baird Baird Signs 3484 West Lake Rd. Canandaigua, NY 14424 Posts: 790 | From: Canandaigua, New York | Registered: Dec 2002
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David I have several air brush art mags with illustrations in them and i have a friend in idaho that has three that are restored that i can get pictures of for you, so let me know if i can help out. Mike
-------------------- Mike Norcross Mikes Signs and Graphics Box 1232 172 adams street Afton, Wyoming 83110 Posts: 82 | From: Afton, Wyoming | Registered: Dec 2002
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Seems alot of things have changed over the years in the way people expect to do business. Time was, when clients with corporate logos "knew" that no work would proceed without proper paperwork. Nowadays that info is often as not posted on some secure ftp site,or if common enough sold as a comercially viable collection of digital data files,and or one at a time.Just got thru watching the morning news and "the media hype" of a local franchise telling folks to log on the internet and make an appointment to buy signage. "They make buying signs easy!" was the concept of the quick less than 30 second spot. They are aiming these ads at the populace out there locally on a primary network morning weather broadcast before they have to go to thier car and race off to take the kids to school and or race to thier job. Next is the traffic report,....go figure,....I have to applaud their ingenuity and or the advertising agency that came up with the idea. Any how back to my point,...
I see all this attitude which I myself must admit I have participated in, as at one time it was accepted ethics, that the client supply camera ready art for any production of advertising and signage. But at the same time I suddenly realized that these professional ethics have possibly changed in the publics eye,... Face it folks there are vendors here who sell collections of corporate logos in a collection,...and they actually pay to advertise here,...The next generation graphics supplier must have enough capabilities to compete in this market as henceforth the public is expecting the end effort on their part not to include something that has traditionally been their responsibilty.This is the marketplace we all compete in daily here,so it would be wise to adjust your traditional ideals as this mass exchange of information we call the internet is changing the rules we play by,...I never liked sandlot ball,the rules changing in the middle of the game,but in the streets as a poor kid wanting to play ball, the kid with the bat and ball made the rules as he saw fit or took the game home with him.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Once we were asked to print some T-shirts for the Girl Scouts. Of course the troop leader didn't have any camera ready logos. So I went to the site, filled out a huge form, had to wait 3 days and then got turned down by the high and mighty GS. We weren't worthy of getting access to the official logo files.
So I did a google image search and had my pick of GS logos.
Sometimes ya just have to get on with the job.
ernie
-------------------- Ernie Balch Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 518-885-9899 Posts: 405 | From: Malta, NY | Registered: Jan 2003
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-------------------- Arvil Shep' Shepherd Art by Shep' -------- " Those who dance are thought to be mad by those who cannot hear the music " Posts: 1281 | From: Mt Airy NC | Registered: Mar 2001
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Timi, Growing up "I was so poor.we didn't have Roaches".....There was nothing for them to eat.... he he he he
When I was sixteen I got a Baseball Cap for my Birthday..and I was allowed to sit in front of the window...so the Neighbors would think I had clothes....he he he he Shep' PS thE original thread has offically gone to HELL......
-------------------- Arvil Shep' Shepherd Art by Shep' -------- " Those who dance are thought to be mad by those who cannot hear the music " Posts: 1281 | From: Mt Airy NC | Registered: Mar 2001
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Holy Crap!!!... I just revisited this thread after my reply to offer help. I have been around Indians since I was a 15 year old drooling kid... I absolutly love these bikes and cut my teeth trying to reproduce the verious designs that were used on them. I'm not going to blow my perverbial horn here, however after 25 years of restoring bikes on the side and huge files on my PC something as simple as what Dave had asked for is available for free from many other resorces. I am just offering it up, grattas, to save some time on a crappy little job for a product I probbably adore wayyyy to much.... Indian Motorcycles!!!!
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[ February 25, 2003, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Stephen Faulkner ]
-------------------- "No excuses!.... No regrets!..."
posted
Well, let me axe this one - once you DO get an Official Camera Ready Logo from someone, the next time a guy comes in wanting it on a sign do you use the one you now have on file? Or do you tell him to Go Fetch another to make sure he has legal access to that company's official artwork . . . CYA . . . at the risk of getting flamed, it seems a lot like the sticker shops that can only produce what they already have on a disk; you know, if you want Fancy Stuff, you're going to get the little desert island with one tree up in the corner. If the customer wants a guy fishing out of a rowboat they ain't-a-gonna get it 'cause it ain't on the disk.
A few years ago I was in Boise painting signs at the baseball park there and there were a series of Chili's logos to be repainted. Driving past the Chili's in town I noticed the REAL logo was quite a bit different from the one somebody had freehanded from memory at the ballpark. Since I had already redone the ones on the fence I brought this up to the boss who said to let them stand as is, since they'd been like that for years and nobody ever noticed. Every year they just compounded the felony.
Posts: 1859 | From: / | Registered: Nov 1998
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i got into a mess over CAMERA READY ART. this other sign guy(did electric lighted signs)who has no cutter or cant paint got a job and came to me to produce the work. ive always asked him for camera ready for his jobs(cause i was doing R.T.A. for him).well this one all i got was a business card. now is where it goes bad....the business card had the EASYRIDER logo and type. pick up a mag and you will see it. the logo is not hard to copy, but the text is like no font available. i figure it was hand drawn and then reproduced from that. so i make a phone call to EASYRIDER main office. BAD MOVE!!!!! they sell francizes.....and this one was in somekinda problem. they wanted me to tell the owner that they werent authorized to use it YET!!! wanted my name...nooooooo way joseeee....and that in no way was i supposed to use the logo. i told the other sign guy(his job) he said make em, i did had to project TEXT and paint!!!!!!!!! i burnt a projector bulb in the process, and someone was gona pay for it not me!!!! i added $45 to his bill, and give him an itemized expense sheet off what this(his)job cost me. well the original price i quoted him was about $300 less...then what this job turned into. needless to say i didnt get paid for all the extra work....but me and him got it straight..."production of signs is where the money is, not sellin and installation." he hasnt been back......also...i guess they never got the franchise....signs went up....then came down....still no easyrider clothing store in town.
[ February 25, 2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Logos can be a problem if you don't handle them in a professional manner! You can easily lose a customer, if you screw up and not reproduce it EXACTLY, and the corporation has a hissy fit!
The customer who says "I can't get a proper copy" is either too lazy, too stupid, or just being a PIA! A phone call to Corporate will get all the camera ready or CD that you need. If the person at corporate is not willing to help, all you (or the customer) have to say is "Do I have to go over your head to your supervisor to get this?" gets the job done QUICKLY! If the customer is unwilling to challenge someone at corporate, no problem, I'll do it, BUT there is a charge added!
EXAMPLE:
A 6'X10' construction site sign for a new school. Designed by the usual incompetent "arkytek" that had more copy than would fit on the sign! Specs call out size, spacing and font. Also included a 12" logo, to be supplied by the school district! After some negoitiations, a few "dignitaries" got removed from the list, and sizes reworke to fit it all in. When the sign was finished and ready for the logo decal...called them and asked for the decal....there were none in inventory! PANIC!!!!! Sign can't be installed without the beloved logo! I said "Want me to simply paint it on?" "Can you?" "Yup! But there will be an additional carge!" In less than 5 minutes, my phone rang, "Additional charge approved."
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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but, any authorized dealer of anything, be it motorcycles, footwear or chainsaws should already have any necessary artwork at their disposal, it's part of the deal. If an authorized dealer can't come up with the logo, there's a problem and it's not yours.
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