posted
This is a modified im workin on for a buddy of mine. Its expirimental. Can i have some opinions from you guys. This is only the second modified racecar i have done. Give me some opinions and suggestions please!!! The car is white body with red chassis. Ill be putting my logo on the car also and a few other sponsors and such but this is just the first proof! thanks!
------------------ Ryan Ursta Ursta Graphics 27 West Shenango St. Sharpsville Pa. 16150 Call: 724•962•2206 "letters of Recommendation"
posted
Neat trick with lower graphic ..flamin! Letters in orange hard to read...maybe a fat white outline around em? Add space between 7 and 1...easier to read when car is on back straight.. Hot numbers!Paint or vinyl?
posted
Michael is dead on about the spacing and the black on orange.. I'd loose the checkerboard, it's gonna look like the number is ripped, I'd also drop the small black outer outline, the yellow by itself will make the number "pop". I'd also scoot the numbers to the rear of the car a little more.
------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
All of the above.....AND......the flames should be slanted toward the rear of the car no matter which side their on.
------------------ St.Marie Graphics & Makin' Tracks Sound Studio Kalispell, Montana stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com 800 735-8026 We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)
posted
Thanks guys, The numbers are too close togather, should have realized that! The customer wanted flags and flames both? I dont care too much for flames though,I cant get the flames to look right on the right side of the car, i can't get them to look good reversed!! Im planning on creating this all from vinyl and airbrushing the fades on the flames. This is just a rough draft though. Thanks for the tips!
Hey George i dont think i can get rid of the black smaller outline the yellow wont show too good on the white car i thought that by adding that id contrast with the yellow outline to make it visible?
------------------ Ryan Ursta Ursta Graphics 27 West Shenango St. Sharpsville Pa. 16150 Call: 724•962•2206 "letters of Recommendation"
Known as "Ugraph" on mirc
[This message has been edited by Ryan Ursta (edited January 09, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Ryan Ursta (edited January 09, 2001).]
posted
Ryan, yer gonna have to trust me on the outline deal. A bold yellow outline WILL show up. Make the outline the size of the black and yellow and it will work. The black outer outline only confuses things at a distance. The key words here are "at a distance". I always approach a roundy round car as if I were sitting in the top row of the grandstand. Forty years of going to the races helps a bunch when it comes to what works and what doesn't. If you feel you absolutely have to have the black outer line in there, keep it thin like 1/8" This will give you contrast up close but won't be confusing "at a distance. Try this one. Put one set of numbers on your computer screen with the black outer line next to a set without. Now step wayyyyyyyyy back from the screen. Notice how the one with the black outer line seems to be sorta "fuzzy" while the one without is crisp! Remember a hundred miles an hour, sideways at that I know these days the trend in dirt cars is to do overdo them to almost wretched excess with six and seven layers of vinyl, but most of the folks in the stands never make it down to the pits and miss most of that stuff. The drivers and owners all eat it up yet keep gripin "you can't read the numbers out on the track" ..........duhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
------------------ George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@ionictech.com
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Yeah....but the customer in this business AIN'T always right. there is too much on those numbers, and there is not enough slant either, IMO. I would KILL the checkers, or find a way to make 'em part of a panel behind the numbers....or something.
Barry
------------------ Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting Clinton AR 5017456246 ICQ 17430008 "Imagine the Possibilities..."
Posts: 2500 | From: Clinton, AR USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sounds like this "Mud Bus" guy is dreaming.....If he wants to see flames he should kick the distributer back about an inch.... and if he wants to see a checkered flag he should get Jack Johnson to set up and drive the thing.......My opinion is to do your job in the most contrasting, complimentary, and economical [time related] job possible.....
------------------ Creative communication since 1959
posted
I would just make the Flame shoot off the 1 on D.S. and the 7 on P.S. And maybe do Checks 1/3 of the way up on the base color of the #'s and maybe fade it in. I agree on the colors yellow outline white of the body then yellow base.To many colors looks great for a mall show yet at the track you cant see them.Everything I do is based on sponcers/driver and a buget i work within.The flame on the bottom looks good from what I can see. As far as good Clip art/graphics for race cars? I use Graphic accents from Beacon. It has about 400 things in it and from that 400 you can change them around to make alot more than they have.
------------------ Steve Moynihan Water Street Frewsburg, New York 14738
posted
Great ideas from everyone. I agree about having the stripes leaning forward on both sides. I do that with the door numbers too. I know it looks weird but thats the racing way. As for the customer wanting flames and checkerd flags. keep the numbers simple and find another spot on the car to put the flags. Good luck.
------------------ Kevin L. Kleinhans Alma Signs (Signs Be Me) Alma, Michigan 517 463-6851
Posts: 139 | From: Alma, MI USA | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
Before giving a fair assessment I believe more information is needed.
First, whom is the car being designed for? The owner of the car, driver, sponsor, scorer, yourself, or all of the above?
What conditions is it being designed for? Show car, day racing, night racing, dirt, asphalt, TV coverage, all of the above?
What about ease of reproduction? Even Billy Pauch and Brett Hearn wreck. Is the design going to require the vehicle to physically be in shop in order to “repair” the graphic? And in what time frame and at what cost?
What do the rules state from the sanctioning body regarding number height and location, drivers name, placement of contingency decals, etc.?
What above continuity in the marketing package? Can the “design” be reproduced on the hauler, apparel, team letterhead, website, etc.?
And perhaps the biggest of all, what is thebudget and do you have the monies up front?
Perhaps not all of the above is applicable in this case, but keep it for future reference and add to it as your experience grows. It is going to be to your advantage to display more ability over your fellow tradesmen. Some customer may view it as just paint/vinyl on the car, but it much more than that. Just as it is more than “going round in circles.”
Bigger, bolder, and flashier usually doesn’t make it when I’m involved. Readability is the main object with me! My experience has shown that it takes a great deal of skill and know-how in many disciplines to create a complete well rounded package. Take a look for yourself. How many cars have seen that look “awesome” at a preseason shows or sitting in the pit area? Heck, it might still look great during the daylight hours of warm-ups.” What about looking at it on the backstretch during a night race? How does it reproduce in the weekly racing rag when the photographer’s flash is reflected back from the “cool reflective vinyl” the customer just had to have? How does it show up when RPM2tonight shows highlights from the track? Can the sponsors name be seen? Does the track scorer send you Christmas cards or death threats? To do a complete and competent job for the customer requires many issues to be addressed.
So that is my “opinion” regarding the design, now for some business “opinion” relevant to the issue.
I have watched your recent arrival to Letterville and understand that you are just starting out on your own. I would like to share with you the following about three different shops in the Greater Harrisburg area…
I just left the employment (Stoner Graphix) of a shop that “fired” all of its racing customers at the end of 1995 to the exception of 1. This was done because of poor profitability relative to other jobs, headaches with collections, and the “I need it yesterday” mentality. New rules were established relative to racing customers. Some of which were; 100% deposit for artwork fee and production, no installation (except sprint car tanks), standard production turn around or pay an additional premium, all vinyl (shop has Gerber EDGE) except sprint car tail tanks, and most importantly, no less than 100% retail charged. These rules applied across the board, from street stock customers all the way to the Winston Cup cars that were done. Racing customers are not the primary focus of this business. They are treated like any other customer and it has resulted in a reputation that you get great service but bring some money.
A different shop, GW Signs (George Williamson), thrives on racecars. They truly are his bread and butter. Last I spoke to George, mid summer of 2000, I believe he stated that he would be over 350+ cars for the season. This did not include replacement panels, extra wings, sponsor banners, pit boards etc. His work is primarily brush with some vinyl. This man is very quick and can punch out the work! I believe his pricing to be fair for this market and limits the amount of “deals” given. He has a good reputation in the racecar community, has many repeat customers, and displays control over his operation.
The last, which will go unnamed, had his shop name on many racecars. He was always busy, proclaimed he could never stay caught up. He had a reputation as well. In a nutshell, if you wanted your car painted on site, have every trick known to a sign painter applied to your car, have it done yesterday, and not pay much, this was the guy to call. He would lower the bill if you would allow him to “advertise” his services on your car. Nothing like perpetuating a bad dream! Needless to say, he no longer has a full time shop.
So what’s my point you ask? Here are three different shops, all within close proximity to one another, with three different approaches to racecar customers. I would ask you to think seriously as to what reputation you would like in the racing community. If you are going to charge top dollar, you need to deliver exceptional service and set yourself apart. This would include thinking about some of the design elements above. If you are more interested in the ego trip of getting your name on the cars or being able to brag that you did so-and-so’s car at the expense of profitability, I hope your other sign work will allow you to remain in business. You need to find what is going to be comfortable and work for you. I wish you well.
Take a peek over at the photo section of D.I.R.T. website to see some work that has been produced over the last three years. Perhaps you can get some additional ideas of what to do, or not to do.
Take George’s advice while looking at these pictures, stand back from the monitor, or squint your eyes. This will help simulate that “back stretch” view.
Take note to what works. Color combinations, outlines\inlines, fades, letter types, graphic lines and elements, and the oh so forgotten negative space.
posted
Bob, Thank You for the great suggestions! Those questions you gave me to ask myself are just what i was looking for! Ive even written them down. I think im going to ditch the flames and focus on the flags on the numbers im going to redo it totally. I wasn't to keen on my idea of flames and dont really care for them myself. (the customer likes them though?) Ill post the results of the new layout when I finish! Great help guys!
------------------ Ryan Ursta Ursta Graphics 27 West Shenango St. Sharpsville Pa. 16150 Call: 724•962•2206 "letters of Recommendation"
Printer-friendly view of this topic