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i'm going to be painting a 4' x 9' sign on a wall. It seems like its small enough to do with a ladder. (i did the same graphic in 6 hours standing on a platform, but this one is higher up, so i need a ladder or scaffold). since its only a one day job, it seems like i can get away with the ladder and skip the scaffold rental. so the question is how to work from a ladder?
do you set the top of the ladder below the area you're painting, and move across the wall, and then down? (ie, working in front of and above the ladder). OR, do you work along the right side of the ladder, working from the right of the sign to the left? i want to make sure i don't paint myself into a corner (ie, start painting and then realize that the wet paint ends up under where the ladder will have to go).
i'm sure this is a basic procedure... i'm just not sure what it is.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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You don't mention how high you're going to be? Standing on those rungs can wear your feet out after awhile, among climbing up and down, up and down. So...different ways to approach your project would be with a scaffold or use two step or extension ladders and jacks with a plank. Be careful...
-------------------- aka:Cisco the "Traveling Millennium Sign Artist" http://www.franciscovargas.com Fresno, CA 93703 559 252-0935 "to live life, is to love life, a sign of no life, is a sign of no love"...Cisco 12'98 Posts: 3576 | From: Fresno, Ca, the great USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Scooter, I think Cisco has the right idea. That's the kind of job I almost always did using extention ladders with ladder jacks and a plank. If you can't make that work, I'd try to place the top of the top of the ladder above the sign and work through the rungs and what you can comfortably reach off to the side.
-------------------- Jerry Mathel Retired Grants Pass, Oregon signs@grantspass.com Posts: 916 | From: Grants Pass, OR USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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the top of the sign is at 17'. I have a 20' extension ladder. to use jacks i'd have to get a second ladder and the jacks and the platform... so i might as well get the scaffold.
i have a shelf that attaches to the ladder, and it says it can be used to rest your feet on (it goes on the underside of the ladder and becomes an extenion of the rung, so your feet have something flat to rest on, and not just the rung).
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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"Use the scaffold." You won't regret it. Its safer, and easier to paint. The best thing about scaffold is; you can sit down while your working. You can cover more area. Your feet will thank you.
As for ladders... To make it easier on your feet, stand on the double rung steps. Its twice as wide and much better for balance. Work to the right side; if your right handed.
Fitches are a must. Raido is another must. Don't stick the thinner rag in your back pocket. Don't forget your pounce bag. Canvas for the floor or sidewalk. There are always drips.
Have you ever seen John Belushi do his ladder trick in Animal House? Very funny. Been there; done that; NEVER do it again. Work safe. Be safe.
-------------------- Richard Bustamante Signs in the Pines www.signsinthepines.com Posts: 781 | From: Nevada City, California | Registered: Nov 1998
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I didn't rent the railings as shown in this photo.
Was $75 for 2 weeks. I only needed one section but I was told you could go higher with another section added. I'd definately buy one if I did more of this kind of work. I was told they are about $400.00
-------------------- Brian Snyder Sign Effectz Woodbridge, New Jersey Posts: 723 | From: Woodbridge, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Do the job off your one ladder, and then you will know first hand why everyone prefers a walkboard.
Seriously, if you do, go from right to left and then your ladder wont be around the wet paint.DON'T put ladder under sign...you will be slightly off balance all day. Paint off to the right side(I guess this is the right handers way...lefties would reverse everything), and behind ladder and through the rungs, whatever. A good walldog can reach just as far with his left hand too, saving on ladder moves.Take a gallon can with coathanger wire hooks (or welding rod) up on the ladder with you to keep your junk in. You can have one more can to put your paint can in too. Always have a paint rag with you.
Thats all I can think of along with what the others have said.
Enjoy......
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Over the top, right side, left side (left-handed), through the middle,...I am sure most have done it all. You will find your comfort zone. One of the first things I do is mix a little color to match wall color(background) just in case I get a case of "the drips". Have fun, be safe!
-------------------- Rich Stebbing RichSigns Rohnert Park CA 707-795-5588 Posts: 755 | From: Rohnert Park, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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If you must do the job off the ladder then take simple precautions for safety,...otherwise I like Jerry Mathels' suggestion of proper scalfolding.This job calls for at the very least; 3 sections of scalfolding, stacked stable,pinned,and braced for the novice or inexperienced. If necessity dictates the use of your ladder or you find it safer and more cost effective then it should be secured in some manner to prevent any damage to your efforts and prevent chance of mishap. If you cannot secure the upper portion of the ladder to where it rests a length of rope secured to a stable point above the ladder and the ladder top will make matters much more stable and decrease the chance of accidents,if you are uncomfortable with working at 17'. To prevent damage and scratches to the wall you might consider taping two clean rags to act as protective pads to the point of contact for the ladder if need be.
As for working off a ladder,or scalfold... I personally have a plastic milk crate cut down to about 6" from the bottom so I can attach a wire harness that crosses in center about 16" above the center of the crate and at each top corner securely. Where the wire crosses I have A ladder hook for a gallon paint can that can be bought at most any paint store. The crate can be hung out of my way to one side or the other of the ladder and can hold several quarts or pints of paint,thinner, my small quart brush can, rags,pencils chalkline,patterns,etc.All the tools I will use will go up the ladder in the crate. it might be easier for the novice to climb with a piece of rope tied to the crate and haul it up rather than to chance climbing with the crate and chancing spills.yardsticks and patterns can be rolled tightly then stored in the rungs of the ladder once you are in position to make extra room in your crate to work from. Its alot easier sometimes to take everything up the ladder with you that is needed than to run up and down that ladder all day chasing this and that.
posted
Scooter...if you are going to use extension ladders, jacks and a plank...make sure you charge enough to cover the fine that CALOSHA will lay on you!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Hi Scooter, I work from a ladder quite a lot, mainly due to lack of access at sites, the other posts offer good, sound advice. I would add that it's a good idea to wrap a rag around the ends of the ladder that might touch the face of the sign, thus avoiding the runs from scratching the sign.Good luck with this project and take every possible care, it's a dangerous way to work for both you and passers by !!!,Brian.
-------------------- Brian the Brush brian the brush uk Yorkshire, UK www.brianthebrushuk.com Posts: 123 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2001
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OK Sid, whats going on with CALOSHA? Have they outlawed planks and ladderjacks in California now? What do they want you to do?...rig up a tag line from each ladder to a safety belt you're wearing, along with your hard hat and safety glasses, along with rope to tie down each ladder and enough dayglo ribbon to rope off a clearance area under where you're working? Maybe they want a safety rail along the back of the plank too, or maybe the plank itself has to be OSHA approved? Does this job require special safety shoes too, or maybe you need a flagman under the job to keep people away. What if they check your paint for hazardous materials? Does this mean rubber gloves and goggles too?...And then there's the hazardous waste disposal issue.....better have a damn good dropcloth, 'cause if any of that nasty stuff gets on the ground they may have to call in the HAZMAT team. And that might ruin you day!
[ November 07, 2002, 05:59 AM: Message edited by: Jeff Ogden ]
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Si, I think the Cal/OSHA thing is for employees. I don't think they can nail you if self employed. Glad they're not up here, we use ladders and toothpicks all the time.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6734 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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good news -- the client just asked for 5 signs, insead of just 1... (its a 100 foot wall and now he wants to cover it with stuff). since its more than just a one day job, i'll either get a scissor lift or scaffolding. (each job is about 8' x 8', and they're space along the wall, so its either move scaffolds every day or pay the extra for the lift).
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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Hey Scoot Glad to hear you're getting a scaffold/scissors jobbie. Last month, I had to re-do an existing sandblasted sign in a housing plan near Mars. Of course, it had a big-ass prickly hedge & could not be taken down & shipped to my shop cuz it was too big. I did the plank between 2 ladders thing, and it sucked out loud! Of course, being 5'2" I could not reach the tippy-top, so I stood on my sign kit on the plank on the ladders! I know, I'm an idiot! Last week, Bill Bereberich (Foodland Mural)& I lettered a barn near Mars. We used scaffolding...so much safer & easier. Of course, being an old Wall Dog, he couldn't resist jumping up & down on it to tease me when we were 3 stories up... The safe-ness was well worth the rental price of the scaffolding (which I tacked onto the bill with absolutely no complaint from the client) Take care, big guy! Love- JILL
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I think that being comfortable and not in a strained position is a mustfor signwriting and I don't see how you be this working off a ladder. You can't handle the mahl stick properly and the next thing you are overreaching and an accident waiting to happen. I don't know if they sell them over there but you can get little scaffolding towers here with a 6' x4' area of 9"x 2" boards You can have them on lockable wheels and put outriggers on for added security when working higher up. Not as good as a cherry picker of course but real handy and very portable and erected in minutes. Mine was onle £80 ( about $1200 ) I'd hate for you to have some stupid accident after putting in so much effort to get to grips with the signwriting scoot.
-------------------- Goldenmahl Dave Hodge's Traditional Signs. Preston, England. 01772 743352 Posts: 108 | From: Preston, Lancashire, England | Registered: Mar 2000
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