Went to line a couple trucks one day and realised my daughter had my liners. Rushed around to my friends place to borrow one.He's in his late 50s.
Never use them he said, but the old guy who I did my aprentiship with, left me some brushes when he retited years ago. Pulled out an old shoe box and blew the dust of centuries off it. There's one! Very worn handle with copper bound ferral but as good as the day it was made. Couldn't read the brand name.
When I went to return it he said to keep it and put it to good use
My other friend Ian Stuart-Coster has a set of coach liners from the 1800's and he still uses them to line restored wooden wheels. !!!!!
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I have about a dozen greyhound truck flats that were bought in the 50's by a friend of mine, who gave them to me (he's retired now} about five years ago. Love 'em...those are the one's everyone was using when I first started out.
My all time favorite brush is my one and a half inch Grumbacher truck flat. I can paint pretty large areas with that thing, and can do great 24" letters with a real smooth, "seamless" finish that just about looks like it was sprayed on! I bought it in 1978 and its still going strong. I told all my paintin' buddies that I was going to bury it in the back yard if it ever died on me. You know, maybe a little monument...... I got it for I think $40.00 from an old guy who used to come around once a year, usually selling Langnichols, although he had other brushes too. I can't for the life of me remember his name, but if anyone on this board was painting in the seventies, I bet they've seen this guy too. He used to come around all the shops along the whole eastern seaboard I think.
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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Two W. Germans from the mid-fifties..... and a few old 1010s I got in the 60s sometime Some old Langnickels, and French Masters i got from Izzy Posner.
......cj
[ October 30, 2002, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: CJ Allan ]
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
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Hey Mark,I just LOVE TO TALK ABOUT OLD BRUSHES!!Really!!
ok, before I forget, There was a guy that travelled the West Coast in the 70's, Isy Posner, an old gold man, I heard tell of him while on a surf & paint holiday (1977) back in my old home town of San Diego. The people at City Signs gave me his #, called, arranged to meet him in the SP Train Depot in LA. Took train up, he's driving a early 70's 2 door BOAT OF A BUICK. Opened the trunk, he has CASES of brushes, quills, fitches, I mean, this was a BIG TRUNK. I spent 100.00 and that was A LOT!. The best were the Langnickel grey flats, they were like CHISELS, Still got the 1" one, wore out the 3/4 doing Texaco gas station windows. Also got some Varigated gold, and alum. leaf, still got most of that!!!?? That was unheard of up our way.
Anyway, he was a neat guy, bought me lunch in a nearby mexican village area, I remember the Seranaders singin' and playing at our table!!!
Oh yes, I still have one of the two brushes I bought in my first week of Sign Class at SDCC/1965,got a #6 and #10 red sable showcard brush(you know, for painting letters on the classified section of the paper, 2" columns.Still got the #10.
Yes, my son, you be a good little signpainter, and you'll go to HEAVEN, where your best brushes NEVER go bad. LOL??
John Lennig / SignRider / BIG TOP Graphics
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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My oldest Brush is a liner that was given to me by a lady who when I started was in her mid forties, it was given to her by her Mentor when she was young. I have no idea of the age or brand, works great!
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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hey CJ, you got brushes in your box that is older than dirt!!!! LOL
i got to take a look in your sign kit when you and the family came to "December in Dixie" back in '99.
it's all in how you take care of a brush.
i wish i still had those luco and grumbacher fitches and cutters that i broke in when i worked for an outdoor advertising company many years ago.
i cleaned them everyday and wrapped them with 30 sheet poster paper.
i was taught by a great billboard painter by the name of Alvin Price who recently passed away.
at 22 years of age i saw this guy paint a coke and hamburger on a billboard and you could almost taste the "dollop" of catsup he painted with a fitch and cutter.
Unfortunately, the stories are now silenced but I have a whole bunch of brushes that I'm sure have wonderful, rich histories.
Some have painted windows, lettered trucks, shocards, christmas ornaments and some even elephants.
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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I'm not trying to "one up" anyone...but about 12 years ago I was given a sign kit by my old mentor (who's still around) George Woodward in Denver ...the kit came from the turn of the century and was still loaded with brushes...several we know were 75 years old... (from checking some old Signs of the times ads I once had)they were and are still plyable and full of magic.
So if they were 75... 12 years ago...well you do the math.
I left the kit sitting for a while then decided it should be used and I carry it to all the meets and use it as my everyday kit.All the brushes are still inside along with my newer ones...haha they are only 25 and 30 (except for the ones I have aquired most recently from Timi and Bushie.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
I have some old Hamiltons, and some Dominicans in there too.....Had a couple Hillers, but I guess somebody needed them more than me, cause i don't seem to be able to find them anymore.........
Bought almost all my old brushes from Izzy, cause I did business with him from the late 50s, and now buy any new ones from Rick and Lola, at Esoteric.........Cept for the 30 or 40 I got from Timi earlier this year.......
I triple clean them in Lacquer thinner, and then keep them in Marvel Mystery Oil......and they're still great after almost 50 years of service...
But I guess that ain't the "Proper" way to do yer brushes .......eh..??? At least thet'a what all the experts keep tellin me........hahahahah!!
Missed ya at Sheps, we had a blast!!! In fact, I'm goin to his next class too.............
..........cj
[ October 30, 2002, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: CJ Allan ]
-------------------- CJ Allan CJs Engraving 982 English Dr. Hazel, KY 42049
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In reply to Jeff's post, here in the midwest there was a man named Cecil Sanders from Ohio, who traveled selling sign supplies. He sold me many Langnickle brushes, ArtSign too. He manufactured his own showcard board and used to have very good quality pencils. Soft and black. Funny how you remember some little things. Still have a few of them, just hate to use them up.
Curt Stenz
-------------------- Curt Stenz Graphics 700 Squirrel Lane Marathon, WI 54448 Posts: 591 | From: Marathon, WI 54448 | Registered: Dec 1998
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kimberly, i would love to see a photo of your dad's brushes(for the ones who don't know about the great Al Zanetti, Mr. Zanetti influenced many a want ta be sign artist, including myself.)
i am humbled by you folks brush stories.
i want to hear more....
come on mayor shortreed, i am sure there are brushes in your box that speaks volumes!
I bought my first set of brushes when I opened my shop. I still have several left...however...most of the hairs have gone away and never to return. I still use the ones that have just a few hairs...they make great outliners for small lettering. They just don't hold much paint.
They go into a special box labeled "Battlefield Brushes" Some are really hammered...some still work great.
I just know that I have lettered a lotta stuff since I have been in this busines
Long live the brush!!!!
-------------------- Jackson Smart Jackson's Signs Port Angeles, WA ...."The Straits of Juan De Fuca in my front yard and Olympic National Park in my backyard...
"Living on Earth is expensive...but it does include a free trip around the Sun" Posts: 1000 | From: Port Angeles, Washington | Registered: Jan 1999
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I bought my first brush from Izzy Posner in 1974 and I know exactly where it is. Its at the bottom of San Diego bay. I dropped it trying to letter a boat. Don't use brushes much any more so theyre lasting real well. The oldest, probably a Langnickel #10 quill from around '83.
-------------------- Chuck Peterson Designs San Diego, CA Posts: 1051 | From: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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When I worked in Phoenix back in the 80s I got sent on a job way across town, and as usual forgot something, so went into a paint store in the neighborhood. On a table towards the back was a box with quills - no handles - displayed in Dixie cups. The store owner said they came with other stock from an old paint shop, whose owner had died, and to their knowledge the quills were from pre-war Germany. I called my boss and asked him if I should buy some (they were priced from 50c to $2) and he said buy all you can right now. I only had $5 on me, so I bought a few, then went back the next day and bought all the rest - there were about 20 or so in all. I still have a couple. They are very stiff, springy hairs, and frankly I don't use them much, but they do work. If in fact they are pre-war that makes them no less than 65 years old.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Bought everything needed to start in business 1957 for $50.00 from Gerry who called himself "Bronx Art" that used to travel to shops in the southern Ct. and New youk area.$50.00 then was about one weeks paycheck working as an aprentice, and that was also a time whe one could eat lunch for a buck a day from the local hot dog stand. Dogs were .25 cents ea. fries the same price and a small drink .20 cents and because there was no tax on food then got.05 cents back. Gerry was long winded and would talk about how the 33 depression was a boon to the sign industry because it gave the art school graduates a place to perform their formal education, not being able to secure a job elsewhere. He thought they created an elevated baseline for good design and letter formation over the self taught sign guy. I still have the flat 1" Langnickel with much milage, the only one of many purchased at that time. That brush is still usable considering that it has seen enough paint that would make a 1" line from Conn. to Cal. and back again.
J.G. Kurtzman
-------------------- John Kurtzman J.G. Kurtzman Sign Shop 97 Taylor Ave. Norwalk, Ct. 06854
----------------------------------- Creative communication since 1959 Posts: 213 | From: So. Norwalk, Ct. USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Well, I can't top the stories that have already been told, especially since I am still just a spring chicken myself.
There are some French Masters in my kit that have several miles on them - probably about 20 years old and then some others that are close to 25 or thirty. I don't remember the origin of most.
If you talk to some of us geezers you will find that most have a huge assortment of brushes but will usually end up using only two or three. Those were considered old friends and you knew exactly what each would do. When they finally wore out or began loosing hair it was like loosing a member of the family.
There is one red sable that my brother gave me for a birthday present when I was 14 and it is still in use today, although it has shed its hair along with me. Considering that I just had a birthday last week, the brush would now be 44 years old.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Several years ago there were was a thread here of Isie Posner tales. I apprenticed to him and am still in contact with one of his sons and grandsons. I have many tools from him, but many much older than that. I still have a full set of the 1926 series Greyhounds too. Many old muslin brushes and cutters that have been used only in varnish since before I was born. Many of the old tools sure outperform the new ones, just like the old cans that have been stashed on the back shelves contain paints that will out perform the new stuff.
There are many brushes I have that were given to me and are associated with memories of long time friends. Do you have brushes you pick up and remember some special moment in life? I have a brush I pick up and remember Gary Volkmann...wherever he is now. I have tools from Hal Benedict and Johnny Saint and on and on. Remembering the job where the brush was given and the conversation that made the moment special seems more important to me than the quality of the tool. Do you have those relationships connected with items in your sign kit?
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6718 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I didn't jump right on this post as I've seen C. J.'s treasure chest too, no way to top that I guess I've got some flats that might be pushing twenty but since I use luco quills, well we can forget about any of them being more than a few years old. I can relate to Raymond, a box full of brushes yet you end up using the same few over and over.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Well...it's time for a "Youngster" to jump in ...............
This is the Original Neatsfoot Oil Can that I purchased at a Hardware Store in North Wilkesboro NC in 1956 (I use Marvel Mystery Oil now)
This is the Kit I use now. It was purchased from Dick Blick around 1970 I purchased my first one in 1956 Some of the Flats that I still use were purchased with my first Kit in 1956 (From Dick Blick) as well. It was completely worn out when I discarded it for this one.
This one, as well as myself is showing a "LITTLE" Age, he he he
At my Woodgrain Class Timi was commenting on the Kit.. "He wondered where the Mate was ????? The one that came over on the ARK......???) he he he
Shep'
-------------------- Arvil Shep' Shepherd Art by Shep' -------- " Those who dance are thought to be mad by those who cannot hear the music " Posts: 1281 | From: Mt Airy NC | Registered: Mar 2001
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I have many brushes and other things which belonged to the late Roy McKee from OKC. I knew Roy as a youngster as he had a weekend home at the lake where I grew up. I was able to aquire all of his brushes and misc. after he passed away. Roy would paint windows and trucks around here when he was around. He had just finished lettering a propane truck at his lakeside home and decided to sit down and take a break when he passed away.
I was just getting started lettering about that time in 1981. Some of his dear friends whom he had entrusted to take care of his things asked me if I would like to have his sign stuff. I was honored to accept these old brushes, which had already logged many miles and I am still using some of them today! He had many old Langnickels, Artsign, Scharff, Grumbacher and Frenchmasters. I even have a set of the big old brass ferrule Grumbacher poster brushes.
I still have a couple of the old Langnickel "blitz fitches" I use all the time and wish I had bought a case of them when they were available. Does anyone know where to get good fitches these days?
My oldest would be whats left of a complete set of super greyhonds and some grey flashes. I also have a sable given to me by the late Mike Stevens, from when he did showcards at Mel Cotton's Sporting goods and he said some older card man gave it to him.
CrazyJack, ( I'm using Ardmore's line )
-------------------- Wilson Ardmore Sun Signs 164 Team Track Rd. Auburn, Ca hatfield@vfr.net Posts: 100 | From: Bowman,Ca | Registered: Aug 2002
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What was that all about??? Oh well, never mind ...I don't wanna know. Anyway.. anyone know about where to get some of those fitches or something real close??
posted
Unfortunately the oldest brush I have is my old toothbrush. Handy for cleaning my airbrush. I have used only Grumbacher 303g's since 1985 but they don't last long. Signwriting with One Shot and 3812 Dupont Reducer takes its toll. I store them with linseed oil, but never heard of using Marvel Mystery oil. Any Suggestions? Ron
-------------------- Ron Costa Sign and Design 28 Ingerson Road Jefferson, NH 0358 Posts: 620 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2002
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Brushes,They're an extension of our hands as we use them, part of us.
When my oldest son Myles was taking media classes at Cap. College in N. Van., they had to produce a documentary. One was about the artist Toni Onley, and how he "put to rest" one of his watercolour brushes. Took place on the beach at Spanish Banks, very moving, as Rick Sacks said, it's the memories around the brushes that are meaningful...
I ramble, but when a quill is done for, I'll say a few words, snap off the handle, and it's a stir stick for some time.
The Mahlstick....... another thread???
John Lennig / SignRider / BIG TOP Graphics
ps, sure seeing names here that are "new to me"
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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arvil i got that same kit....i bought it from the wife of an old painter who died 93-95. i moved here in 98 and someone in my wifes family was a freind to the wife of the painter and told me that she was going to clean out his old shop. i got the kit, with all the brushes, i got 2 harrison fitches, one is close to 3" wide and the other is 2"(but a little stiff). also had 2 muslum brushes which i traded to timi. got all the paint he had in the shop(3 big boxes) still have some, and in that was a small can king cole black, which timi got also. the kit has a mostly langnickles and ill clean one out every now and then to use. i had some old brushes when i moved to pensacola in 98, but the utility room had a fire....yep the paint kit & brushes took the brunt ot it. so i lost all my old and good stuff i had since i started paintin. also linseed oil is not good to store brushes in, i did that with my 1st set of quills(60's) and when i went to get one one day after they sat for acouple months, the linseed oil was now linseed rock!!!! as for brush storage i use 10w non detergent motor oil.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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OP, I made the mistake once of using linseed oil ... and it turned into "Chewing Gum" or something similar......I too use 10w Motor oil, or Marvel Mystery Oil or even Transmission Fluid....
The Sign Kit is usually in my vehicle, any where I go.......who knows. I just might get the chance to make a few bucks "Snapping" he he he he
Have you ever wondered just HOW much money you have made with a Sign KIt, Lettering Enamel and a few Good Brushes??????
Shep'
-------------------- Arvil Shep' Shepherd Art by Shep' -------- " Those who dance are thought to be mad by those who cannot hear the music " Posts: 1281 | From: Mt Airy NC | Registered: Mar 2001
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The brush that my father gave me was a striping brush from a signpainter that traveled through the keys and snapped signs on a regular basis. Would that be a "sign gypsy"? lol. I think his name was "Gary". I don't know where that particular brush is at this point, but, I promised my Dad that I was going to try striping in the near future. ( That was before we lost him in Dec. 2001.)He was thrilled to hear that, since my first attempt to paint a huge pirate ship sign right there in the Keys in 71. While we're on the subject, it made me wonder if there is anywhere to find used (lovingly broken-in) brushes? I find that brushes that were made long ago tend to have been made fairly well. When I sold brushes and paint, I was constantly being educated by the customers about the companies. Art Sign by Liquitex (Barney and Smith, I believe) was discontinuing their brush at that time, and I bought up about 50 of them, at a very reasonable price! They weren't the best of quills but not bad for basic jobs. I favored the French Masters, but never owned more than one.( I fell in love with Judy Pate's F. M. at Don's Dixie meet a few weeks back.) Grumbacher was at that time having another company construct the lettering quills and the quality had dropped significantly and the hairs were not glued properly. The signpainters used to complain a lot about that and spent time gluing the ferrules with a hypodermic needle. I would love to get my hands on some older, "deeply loved" brushes, for many reasons. Would an ad be the way to go? Or would these be the orphans that accidentally got stashed in a garage or attic along with the memories or among forgotten possessions in some cases? (BTW, Kimberly, your post of your Dad's brushes was delightful/glad you have them for keepsakes of your Dad. What a treasure, he would be proud of you!) Wondering where I could run an ad that would be the most beneficial?
[ October 31, 2002, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: Deb Fowler ]
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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Deb - Thanks. Yes, it's nice to have his brushes around.
I probably have about 60 left - Langnickle, French Masters, ArtSign, Grumbacherm Windsor & Newton, Rafael.
I had many more last year but after his memorial service, I gave many of his closest friends and family members each a brush to have to remember him by.
Mark - When I have a chance, I'll gather them all up and take some shots.
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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Deb - How about an ad in Letterhead Magazine?
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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Well I have one from when we used to paint pictures inside the caves before houses ever came along. It was made from the hair of a wooly mammoth tail and tied onto the end of a tree branch. Still works as good as the day we made it.
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 911 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Well gee....like I said, I have many many old brushes. Lettering flats way over 20 years old. But you have the #1 Dick Blick M.F. so......I couldn't possibly compare to that.
Posts: 3729 | From: Seattle | Registered: Sep 1999
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