posted
I have a specific request, from a customer(Uncle Sam), for various aluminum signs to include text, typesetting, graphic design, illustration and "silkscreening". They want 14 of one size (but different graphics on each one) and 10 of various other sizes and graphics. So, wouldn't you have to make a screen for each individual sign?
My question: Will cast high performance vinyl work just as well or will screenprinted graphics have superior durability? Thanks
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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-------------------- Brian the Brush brian the brush uk Yorkshire, UK www.brianthebrushuk.com Posts: 123 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Brian, Let's just say, if I hand painted it, it would look like a chimpanzee with Parkinson's Disease, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, and chronic Caffiene addiction, painted it during an epileptic attack while riding to town on a trotting mule. Guess I could make spray masks though.
The rest of the signs will be sandblasted, which is my specialty.
[ September 19, 2002, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Screen inks have about the same lifespan as vinyl (ie, 7-10 years according to the manufacturers -- your mileage might vary). The issue probably comes down to complexity (its easier to screenprint tiny letters and they'll probably last longer), and vandal resistance (vandals can't peel screen words off a sign). If there is any common graphic elements, maybe you can use a combination of screen print and vinyl? It its got lots of text (rules and regulations signs) then i'd probably print them.
Oh, and if the Fed specifies screen print, then its got to be screen print. Its usually easier to give them what they want than to convince them the alternative will save them money.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Try to create common elements if they all need a border, all need "State of ?, Dept. of ? or a "revised statutes" # for whatever law(s)the signs are protecting. If half or more of each sign can match, print those together. I agree with Scooter that the State doesn't want to know about alternatives usually. If the layouts can allow the part of each sign that is different to be smaller & grouped together, you could burn 2 or 3 different messages together, set-up stops, or guides for all 3 (the signs wont fit on the table at one time, but if your guides fit, you can leave the screen clamped down, with wet ink on it, & switch out sign one for sign 2, then squeegee over sign #2's message, then do #3) this way you only clean the screen once.
As for the Gov. work not wanting vinyl, I would at least let them know you have the economical alternatives in case you competition bids it that way.
posted
If color is not an issue we use Metalphoto. It's only 2 colors but it will last over 10 years. Colors can be black and silver, red and black, blue and black, or gold and black. Don't know if this is an option but it may be worth checking into. Very nice classy look when finished.
-------------------- TJ Duvall Diamond State Graphics, Inc.
New Castle, DE 19720 Posts: 396 | From: New Castle,Delaware | Registered: Jul 2002
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Wayne why would you even consider screen printing when the customer is looking for different paterns on each one? Unless they will order 3000 thousand of each,hand painting or vinyl are the only choices.Only my opion!!!!
-------------------- Randall Campbell Randy's Graphics, 420 Fairfield N. Hamilton Ontario Canada Posts: 2857 | From: Hamilton Ontario Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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Randy, I don't know very much about screenprinting but I do know that it doesn't make sense to burn a screen for just one or two signs, which is the case here. But, the solicitation specified "silkscreening". As someone mentioned above, it could be because vinyl is easier to be peeled off, defaced or vandalized.
Five of the signs are to be sandblasted and I'm very familiar with that. But, I will have to sub out the screenprinted (or whatever) aluminum signs. On top of that, they sure don't give you much information as to exactly what they want, and only give you about three working days notice. Also found out that they want 105 small 12''x9'' signs as well.
If all 134 signs were to be vinyl or sandblasted redwood or HDU, that would be right down my alley.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Once I start seeing things like "they don't give me much info" and "government" in the same sentence, I get the willies. I'd tread very carefully...
-------------------- Steve Burke Cascades Inc NS Canada
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you Posts: 359 | From: NS Canada | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Wayne, you could cut a mask out of vinyl and spray or roll the signs. Doing it this way you could use an automotive 2-part paint that would give you a tough finish. Just remember to pull the mask off before it sets up too good so your paint doesn't "bridge" across the mask. Also, it helps to cut lines in between lines of copy so your only weeding one line at a time. Cover the cut line with masking tape before you paint. Good Luck
-------------------- Matthew Broadus Matthew Broadus Advertising Jacksonville, Fl. mattbroa@alltel.net Posts: 55 | From: Jacksonville, Florida, U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Wayne, You could make screens for small quantity runs using reverse weeded high performance vinyl applied to the squeegee side of the fabric. Let me know if you need more info on techniques.
Which agency is the solicitation for? I work for the Army Corps of Engineers. Some of the signs in the Corps sign manual specify screen printing. What was happening was that people were pealing the letters and doing some creative rewording of signs.
When we send out solicitations for bids, the vendor must bid on the contract as specified. If they requested screen printed signs and you bid vinyl, they won't consider your bid.
-------------------- Dave Johnson Saltsburg, PA
724-459-7240 Posts: 228 | From: Saltsburg, PA | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
That's what I was afraid of. I have a couple of companies working on quotes for the MetalPhoto signs but, that could be for nothing then. They look like a first class, durable product, though.
Screenprinting is going to cost an arm and a leg, I'm afraid.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
this is a case were the customer prob. his self thinks that screen printing is the only way signs can be make because 5 years ago Joe blow did a job for them that way.....at times a sign makers job is to also educate the customer on how jobs can be done and when....for starters ANY sign and be vandalized one way or another. screen printing has its place ...best for long run jobs and some short run if the art work to be done requires it.Vinyl gives you flexibility and with the good h.p. vinyls out you still get a very good bang for your buck.To me screen printing the common part one each sign and using vinyl on the parts that's different sound like a good way to go to me as long as you get a good color match. With the numbers you was talking about I would not try cutting a mask and then painting.....to me that would just be to much labor for a long run job
-------------------- Aaron Haynes Aaron's Signs & Windows Napa Ca aa4signs@sbcglobal.net ------------ Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two" ------------ If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes. Posts: 241 | From: Napa Ca. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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i did a safety sign last week for a constuction project (days worked with no injury sign) and the specs came from the army cor of engineers
YOU COULD PARK DANG TRUCK ON THIS THING!!!!!!!!
-------------------- Aaron Haynes Aaron's Signs & Windows Napa Ca aa4signs@sbcglobal.net ------------ Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two" ------------ If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes. Posts: 241 | From: Napa Ca. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
everybody sounds like burning a screen is rocket science. You just need a film made of black vinyl on clear acetate (if you don't have plotter-ready rubylith, or ink-jet printable vellum), a bucks worth of emulsion, couple hours drying time, 45 seconds in the sun, & rinse it in a hose. If the state wants silkscreening, give it to 'em! If it were all about cost, each job has a break point where printing is cheaper (in materials & labor)then vinyl. Of course that point is different based on how well your set-up for either, how skilled you are at either, & weather or not either method requires subbing, but that break point is never anywhere near 3000 IMHO
posted
If it was me I'd take "silk screening" to mean they want paint, and thats what I'd give 'em.
And I'd do it just like Matthew said. Cut a mask using Gerbermask or similar product, then spray whatever paint they specify or use 1-shot. Just be sure to peel while still tacky. I do many signs this way and its very easy to do. Lots of people down here still don't like "stick-ons".
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
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