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A customer calls me about doing a mural on a exterior wall. The artwork he showed me on his phone looked pretty good, almost professionally done. I had him send me the artwork he had via my phone. Upon inspection I find the following paragraph,,,This is a original design,, yada yada yada,,,,not for reproduction etc nuf said. So tomorrow I will enlighten him to the fine print and that if he wants me to do a mural, it will have to be redesigned. I ani't going there, copy someone else's design. This happened to me before, it was a design from Balandi's Signs. I said no to that job too. "Word!"
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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It doesn't have to be redesigned, though. As long as he pays for the design, and can show proof, such as a release from the designer, it should be good to go.
I know, at least in my area, some shops will just copy the art, and not worry about the small print.
-------------------- Mark Kottwitz Kottwitz Graphics Ridgely, MD www.SeeMySignWork.com -------------------------- Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein Posts: 746 | From: Ridgely, MD | Registered: Oct 2000
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Not to mention it was going to be "Seahawks" logo, about 30 foot in lenght. Highly visible to the wonderful lawyers employed by the Seahawks. I think they thought that the big Seahawks logo would attract new customers to their auto mechanics business. "Oh yeah, that will bring em in!"
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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You mean these Seahawks? I painted 10 of these platforms. Not worried though because they were weightlifting platforms for the Seahawks new weight room.
You definitely did the right thing Alicia.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Good for you, Alicia! Honesty is so refreshing.
Especially these days. It seems that dishonesty—and trying to get away with as much as possible without getting caught—permeates our society from top to bottom. Why?
It seems that so many people believe that intellectual property is not really property. That petty theft, like shoplifting, is worse. Imagine the reaction of a mechanic if you took one of his tools, or even borrowed one without asking. It's as if people don't value something unless it's a physical object, yet some intellectual property can be far more valuable than a car or house. I wrote a blog on this last year. And it continues to amaze me. I heard a sign guy say once, "If they don't want it stolen, they shouldn't make it so easy to take." Really? I heard a teenager use the exact same words about shoplifting. The fact that it is easy to do without being caught or punished is the determining factor. The fact that it is dishonest doesn't even enter their thinking. Is it expecting too much that an adult in business should not have the attitude of a juvenile delinquent? How is this different from being an animal?
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yep,I sent him a re-design. Not a painted wall, but a banner. I explained to him the consequences of having a large Seahawks mural. Not only could it be a problem with the Seahawks, it could also be a problem with the city. I told him if he wants, I could sell him a banner. This way if he is forced to remove it, it wouldn't be so costly to him. Too bad though, I never heard back from him.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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They can read the fine print. They just don't care.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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I'd be inclined to give that competor who designed that sketch/artwork a courtesy call to let them know that their work was being "shopped around" and that you'd declined to do the work, as requested. I'm sure that it would cause them to re-examine any future effort at providing artwork for this individual. If nothing else, it would give them some reassurance that there are still craftspersons out there who have some integrity, and conduct their business with respect toward their competition.Hey, you might even gain a friend.
-------------------- Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com
Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ? Posts: 2684 | From: London,Ontario, Canada | Registered: Feb 1999
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I've done that a number of times and let the other sign company know what was going on and that I wouldn't use their drawings.
I ended up with one of my best customers ever because I wouldn't take someone else's drawing. He told me later that was when he decided he'd do business with me.
The landlord's chief architect liked the sign I built and started recommending me around his company. I rode that gravy train about twenty years until the architect retired and less principled people took over. He told me right before he retired that he didn't like the direction the company was going on ethics. I'd already been seeing what the new management was like and we parted ways.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Here in 'Bama you can sustain heavy fines if you're not licensed with the University of Alabama or Auburn University using their logos in any way.
I often have to turn down people wanting door hangers and other such 'craft or car paraphanalia - I tell them to go find it already made somewhere.
But there is a rather difficult grey area - for example - a lady painted her sons bedroom navy blue. Then she wanted an 8ft tall AU outlined in white. I did this about 15 years ago - actually before or about the time the colleges created the strigent licensing program.
Some people want a simple, very custom-size decal like a white script Alabama A - which they don't always find - Altho I typically direct them to Google or call the college and ask for a licensed shop.
These license programs were largely created because of people who make logo emblazoned 'craft' items to sell - most of which produce tacky, poorly done logos. Im sure every state has the same issues with their popular teams.
Meanwhile - I seldom get other shops custom original logos or sign designs to reproduce.
Since I can create, I encourage customers to show me a variety of things they like. This may be a collage of photos of art, furniture, actual items & colour samples. After a discussion of the favoured elements of these things, when I know the style of art, subject, they want, then I can design an original piece to suit and recommend materials etc. - very similar to the process if cabinet makers, architects, interior designers etc.
I also get really sick of women sending me pics of every sort of random craft someone made/posted on pintrest, etsy, etc, asking me if I can make it. With the millions of things posted it's actually getting harder and harder to create anything new & unique. I've had materials in my shop to make an item and had someone send me a pic of the same thing posted on pintrest. This has happened at least 3 times. Despite me asking her to stop -one of my clients continues to send me her phone pics of pictures from magazines - recently a dining room table she wants me to build.
She'll say - 'You can design it but I want it to look like this.' ?
She just doesn't get it, but then in some ways, neither do I.
The WWW has diluted originality.
Copy right logos, other-shop art are crystal clear. I totally abide by all rules, and will doggedly seek proper channels or turn down the job. I am licensed with Auburn bc I reproduced a 10 inch extension logo on a remote, city excercise sign. I spent two hours submitting paperwork, and signing agreements to do that one little decal. My license is good for one year... (as if I may reproduce the logo improperly after 1 year...?)
I recently reproduced the Subway logo on some highway signs with the written consent of a franchise owner who got her consent from the main corporation.
But in the cases of randomly seen art (and this includes a trillion kinds of 'craft signs, furniture, etc - where is the line between copying & originality??
Art museums are very protective of their art-clients & rightly so.
Then the customer buys a piece of Art. They go home,hang it, snap a pic and post it on Pintrest, etc. OR it gets seen in the background photo of some interior-design magazine - and from this exposure hundreds of skilled people around the globe reproduce that art and the originality is doomed.
THAT said - you may wish to send me to some part of copy-right hell bc I have no end of people who see some Hobby-Lobby or Michaels art-canvas and want it reproduced in a custom size and/or colour.
Most of this art is duplicate painted in China by sweat-house painters - and where the original inspiration comes from is anyone's guess . . .
But even when I replicate these already replicated pieces (I do 2 or 3 a year) I call them outright forgeries, and also have a special signature that my daughters know means it's a forgery - in case I die, in which case, death will make me impossibley wealthy & famous ...
In fact, many of the now-famous renaissance painters often produced forgeries not just to prove their skill, but to survive - neither of which are my motivations.
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