posted
I agree with you Glenn, but I am just an old school sign painter and, besides, I am too old to invest in the necessary technology, at this stage of my life.....But, still it is, indeed, a terrific entrepreneurial idea......for a younger person, with designing skills and the capability to handle volume production, at low pricing.
posted
Just did a little research. I could cut the shapes on my router and get 24 signs per sheet of PVC at just under $1 each. Digital print bought on line at $3.75 each. 50¢ worth of double stick tap and cut vinyl for the personalization puts material cost at $4.25. Add $5 labor for assembly and you have $20.73 profit. Not bad.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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WOW !!...Outstanding !..Good on you, Dave !!...You must be a very smart "shop owner" !......I betcha you are one of those cool "embracers" of the new technology, who, constantly, ridicules and looks down on those who do not embrace it, because it really makes you feel good and smart.
Did you ever try painting signs for a living?....For over 50 years?
posted
Yes setup one could make a profit If that is all they did they would have to sell alot of small signs at $30 to pay for all the equipment & by the time they sold 5,000 signs to start profiting, they would have to upgrade if screen printing thinks profit would be higher providing it is all a one person shop.
But design skills on these is pretty standard push buttons & go.
But it is like going to a custom car show & seeing everything from auto parts stores & vinyl prints for graphics, why bother be impressed.
posted
Dave, It could be produced for even less and still have a hand-lettered feel.
I was thinking about it last night wondering how I could do it with what I have.
I have free access to an old CNC and I have an AnaJet DTG printer (which I used to supplement my textile screen printing services).
Hardboard: $20 (can cut 24 pieces out of a sheet; comes to about 83¢ per piece)
Inkjet receptive coating: 10¢ per panel
Ink: 12¢ per panel.
Total Materials: $1.05 per panel.
Basically, after the panels have been routed and the edges sanded smooth, the receptive coating is applied with a brush and allowed to dry. Run the panel through the DTG printer. Next, run the panel through the same dryer I use to cure textile prints. Done. An additional option would be to clear the completed print with a matte clear.
***
Ricardo,
I grew up old school. My father taught me how to handletter and dragged me everywhere to letter everything from vehicles to brick walls to billboards.
In 1988, a retired electrical engineer introduced me to my first PC and Corel Draw ver. 1.0.
Fred was in his seventies back then. He was one of the more interesting characters I've had the opportunity to meet in life so far. He hired me to develop a series of design templates for his weekend business.
He had a small trailer he had built that he used to go to car shows and sell customized t-shirts.
His plan was pretty cool. He had a series of "car designs" you could choose from his catalog. It would have a place for a person's name on top. A rendering of a car in the middle. And then the name of the vehicle underneath.
For example...
Fred's (image of car) 1969 Camaro
At the car show, the customer would walk up to to Fred's trailer and select the design he wanted.
Fred would ask for a name and type it into the Coreldraw file. Then Fred would ask the customer what color for the car and Fred would click it in. Then he would print out a heat transfer and press it onto the shirt.
Under normal circumstances the entire transaction would take about 5 minutes and the shirt would sell for $20.
It was pretty profitable work. He would clear anywhere from $800 to $1200 for a weekend's work.
Before my father went into the sign business full time back in 1978, he was the regional advertising manager for JC Penneys for the Washington, DC area.
Living in the DC area and raising 3 kids wasn't easy even then. I can only imagine how tough it would be today.
He would come home from work around 6pm and go to the spare bedroom he converted into a sign studio. He handlettered a lot of showcards back then for extra income.
He had a lot of scrap showcard laying around that he hated the idea of throwing out. He hit on an idea that became incredibly profitable for him.
He would do cartoon illustrations using a thumbprint, a Rapidograph pen and some color pencils. He would put a thumbrint on a scrap piece of showcard that he had trimmed up. Using the rapidograph pen, he would turn the body into a bird in various poses. Some of the subjects would be Adam & Eve with a snake selling apples for 5¢. He did a series of them for the Washington Redskins (dad went to school with Chris Hanburger). It got pretty popular.
He would do them during his lunch hour at work and sell them for $3 apiece.
He made enough money the first year to buy mom a mink stole for Christmas.
I've always been in awe of my father's ability to take was was basically trash and turn it into something useful and profitable. If I can find one of renderings, I'll post it here. You might find it enjoyable.
Thanks for sharing your story......I am totally familiar with your exposure to the "old school" sign painting ways and, also, with your father's experiences of then.
It is obvious that your father is a very special man.
posted
At just about any Hoby or Decor store such as Micheal's or Hoby Hall, they have all types of little signs like that. Some are produced on wood, hardboard or even coragated metal. Very cheap, low price. There are also individual distressed metal letters. Some even have LED lighting. But of curse, it is 90% made in another country by very low paid workers. I wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't even understand what the words on the signs meant. On the other hand, if you could find your niche market, it could be very profitable. You just have to really be on top of the trends and not make more signs than you can sell.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
I know many stores over here that have refused to adopt a proper online presence and have gone to the wall, sometimes after generations in business. Others have online stores to compliment their walk in ones and are doing fine. My daughters use them all the time. Go into the store in a mall, try on the stuff, buy it on line from same outfit but cheaper and with better selection. Stuff can be returned to the store if unhappy. Our business is heading a bit that way too it seems
-------------------- Kevin Gaffney Artistik Signs Kinnegad County Westmeath Ireland 044-75187 kevingaffney@eircom.net Posts: 628 | From: Ireland | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Wow, and Jeff Wisdom wondered where all the Letterheads have gone...why this forum is so empty. Ricardo, your attack on me has happened way too often here and IS one of the reasons many have left Letterville. One of the creeds of Letterheads is to "Leave your ego at the door" Your attack was unwarranted and not the stuff of Letterheads. I was simply pointing out that it is possible to make money doing that type of sign. But if you really believe that $30 man cave signs are putting guys like you out of business, well I just don't know what to say about that.
I started in the sign business in the early 90's. Just where was I suppose to learn hand lettering? I went to many Letterhead meets, attended all the hand lettering seminars, bought quills and striping brushes. No I don't freehand letter. I needed to make a living making signs, not practicing a dying art. But I marveled at the skill of guys like Mike Meyer, Bruce Bowers, Bill Diaz, Tim Bird, Elvis, Rod Tickle just to name a few. And yes, I embrace the new technology, but in no way do I "constantly, ridicules and looks down on those who do not embrace it". Not anything like you do to those that don't hand letter.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
Glenn, You are absolutely right. I figured a price with the equipment I already own. I sub out all my digital prints because I put the $40,000 into a router instead of digital printers. I don't do enough digital prints in a year to keep a printer going for a week.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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I totally agree with your comments on why this place is becoming a ghost town. I'd also like to add, those of us who treat our businesses as such have been blasted too many times for it. I love what I do, but it's also my method of putting food on the table. I'm not doing this just to get my ego stroked. I remember someone from here putting down an edgehead meet because we were just talking about a printer. I tried explaining that at ANY edge meet, in 1 day, we have more business discussions than every letterhead meet I've ever gone to combined but he refused to listen.
I met with my new web developer this morning, after spending quite a bit of time going through photos this weekend. There are very few photos I selected for my new site that I would ever post here. Why? Because I need to appeal to my customers, not try to impress my letterhead friends.
And yes, I embrace new technology, somewhat, as that is what fills my customer's needs. I have never once had a customer ask me to use paint, if anything, they ask for vinyl because they know the truck is going to be stripped & traded or sold a few years later.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
You have to have a thick skin Dave thats for sure... I still get to do the very scattered Hand lettering Job. also I get to Airbrush quite a bit and Pinstripe...but 95% of my work is Digital... and there has been a big issue of all sorts of people on here who have put that down in one way or another... along with politics and religion... I know it turns more than just me off.... but I miss the old days all the time... but they are the Old days... time to get over it and move on up to the East Side! lol
-------------------- "Keep Positive"
SIGNS1st. Neil Butler Paradise, NF Posts: 6277 | From: St. John's NF Canada | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Dave S. Your comments to Ricardo are well justified. I don't know him but I do know you and I know you are genuine and "giving".
I have to say that ever since Ricardo started posting here, it seems to me that 95% of his posts are just links to Google searches. No constructive comments (actually, mostly critical comments) I think I might have actually clicked on one of his 1000 or so links 5 or 6 times. I can "Google" for myself and usually do it to find information that I am looking for (Positive information not negative)
Keep up the good work Dave and don't let some old fart get to you.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I find it amazing that someone can make a buck doing those signs at those prices. Looks like a great way to supplement an income so that there is room to do the creative stuff or golf or whatever your schtick is. I sure don't know how to do it, nor would I want to. One thing that wasn't factored in to Dave's equation is the time to make the changes to customize the sign. I assume the name comes with the order and the payment is online, so that takes no time messing with a customer. I like dealing with customers and the personalization of every project.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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If it means anything... Last week I hand lettered and painted 4 different fish on an old safe. Yesterday I painted a basketball court. Next week I will be painting a 26' x 52' American flag on a wall 45' to the bottom. Today I will be cutting, weeding, and applying vinyl to 34 small safety signs. It ALL pays the bills.
-------------------- Don Hulsey Strokes by DON signs Utica, KY 270-275-9552 sbdsigns@aol.com
I've always been crazy... but it's kept me from going insane. Posts: 2274 | From: Utica, KY U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Years back, a friend had a mail order catalogue and invited me to create a product he could sell for me so that I didn't need to work so hard. This was around the time Mike J started casting all those little figures and finding he could generate a decent income from those collectors. I never came up with a product, so I never got to see that "easier street."
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I still do custom signs and have a healthy enough call for that, but I use my evening to make signs that are available to purchase online or at my local art store.
It's a great way to supplement income especially around Christmas.
I go around to the cabinet makers and buy all the cupboard doors that were the wrong size, or can't be used and paint them up for cottage or ManCave signs.
I enjoy choosing my own content or sayings - it's a nice break to have that freedom. I add yard sale finds ( trinkets) or my own carvings to them.
Nothing wrong with it. BUT I can't beat those prices!
-------------------- Shirley Carron Black Sheep Designs 184 John St. N. Arnprior,On.,Canada shirleyc@magma.ca 613-623-7053 Posts: 503 | From: Arnprior, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Let's face it, the skill of hand lettering takes time to aquire. The only place that teaches it properly is Los Angeles Trade Tech College. Most young people would like to learn, but they seem to lack the fire. I have told countless people how to teach themselves. Onlyone person, a guy named Danny for Los Angeles, took it seriously. I sometimes go to "Brush Bashes" at local car shows. The desire is there for some people. But to honestly make a complete living at it is rare unless you are extra ordinally talented. I also think that as time goes on, handlettering is going to become a very expensive artform. What I mean, is more like fine art rather than commercial art. At least I hope so.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
"I betcha you are one of those cool "embracers" of the new technology, who, constantly, ridicules and looks down on those who do not embrace it, because it really makes you feel good and smart."
Ricardo, this could be re-phrased slightly to read: You are one of those "old School" hand painters, who, constantly, ridicules and looks down on those who embrace technology, because it really makes you feel good."
Could it not? Probably depends which side of the coin you're looking at it from, but thoughtless comments like that, have contributed to the demise of this site over the years.
No offense.
[ June 20, 2015, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: Bruce Evans ]
-------------------- Bruce Evans Crown Graphics Chino, CA graphics@westcoach.net Posts: 910 | From: Chino, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
In no other business have I seen more time and energy placed into a debate over how low they can go, how fast they can turn out crap, and how many crumbs they can gather doing it. Woohoo! LOL
And vile comments? You guys are sissies. LOL
I relate to Craig, Rixax and Dave Wright the most on this thread. and .... I do empathize with Ricardo's seniments. I don't even hand letter, and I share in his disheartenment.
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
I decided to join them, what the hell. I needed an outlet for my disappearing lettering skills so I gave etsy a try. You have to sell cheap so I used my production experiences that I gained from working in a commercial shop. This is one of the signs I sell, one of the cheaper ones. I get $35 plus shipping for this one. This one is 7x23. None of the signs I do have over $5 in material. Total time on any sign is under fifteen minutes due to cutting, coating out, lettering and aging done in multiples. I use USPS flat rate boxes so only minutes are spent of packing and I keep all signs sized to where they easily fit in the various size boxes. I can't say I'm making a killing yet but I have been having fun. I did pick up a client who likes the looks of what I do and I do commissioned work for reproduction fr them that pays really well so in the end it has been worth it.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
ART.........brought me to sign painting....as most of old timers did......and as the sign business is morphing into nothing more then "print shops"........ WE that can still do ART... will always find some venue to produce something.......i honestly believe that is the driving force with us...making something that came from our mind and created by our hands.... like preston mcall, rusty, they was wasting their talents with signs.....me i make pottery....REMODEL BATHROOMS)))) HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
And art can manifest itself in a bunch of ways....whether it's painting beautiful landscapes, or making pottery, or making furniture out of "found" stuff, or making a fake rock that we put out in a community flower garden: I had a bunch of wire H stakes leftover from doing a lot of political signs; so I cut them apart, made and welded up a skeleton frame of the shape, and covered it with some old screen I had. Then got some shredded fiberglass strands and mixed that with Portland cement, and covered the "rock". It was then painted with various shades of acrylics, and voila. Not a thing of beauty; but does the job. I named her "RocksAnne".I guess she weighs about 60 pounds, but that's better than 300 for a real one.And thanks to inspirations from seeing some of the creations, made by Dan Sawatzky, that possessed me to even attempt something like this.
Or taking a bunch of leftover pieces of aluminum and MDO, and making a "gift sign" for a friend.I did the 'elect and 'constable' in vinyl, so they can be changed; but the rest is hand-painted.
I think that's what separates many of us from many of the new digital folks; the ability to have learned many various aspects of this craft, and be able to put them to use, in different and unique ways. Turn a creative and devious mind, and the ability to use a variety of tools and materials loose, and it's amazing what might come out of it.
posted
i did this for my eye doctor. he stopped a stroke in my optic nerve when i had the open heart surgery. if he wouldnt have stopped it i woulda been blind. in our conversations since then........i found out he also flys his own plane. so while healing from the surgery i came up with this gift to him. he loved it))))) 16X24 .040 ALUM all paint.......i also included on the back the VON DUTCH story of this design. [IMG][/IMG]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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