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OK...I'll show my sign ignorance once again...I'm always using wood or hdu for my signs and have used the aluminum faced sign boards only a couple of times...2 questions...what's the best way to attach an hdu cutout piece to one of these boards?...and secondly...will Magic Sclupt stick to these boards well...could the different expansion and contraction rates of these 2 materials cause a potential problem.
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Rusty, if you don't mind a piggy-back; I have a terrible problem with the alumawhatever panels. It seems that they are powdercoated and I can't find a primer that will grab on. I have used several acrylic paints with no success. We used to have a flat white enamel primer from Chromatic but it is no longer available...or at least I don't find it anywhere. Any suggestions? Anyone? Anyone? Jer
-------------------- Gerald Barlow Artworx Turlock, CA
95380 artworx@bigvalley.net Posts: 198 | From: Turlock, CA 95380, USA | Registered: Dec 2002
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I don't know if it's much help, but could you drill and screw through the back of the panel and into the hdu? I might try some majic smooth for adhesion and the screws would also secure it.
-------------------- Shirley Carron Black Sheep Designs 184 John St. N. Arnprior,On.,Canada shirleyc@magma.ca 613-623-7053 Posts: 503 | From: Arnprior, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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For Rusty, I use epoxy to attach an HDU piece to Alumalite or DiBond. I run a bead around the perimeter and then a few strips several inches apart. If possible I will run a few screws in through the backside. Another method is to drill pockets into the back of the HDU (3/4 to 1 inch forstner bits are best because of their flat bottoms) and insert a Gemini Letters stud then fill with epoxy. Then I'll drill holes through the aluminum and attach with a nut. (I drill the holes into the aluminum first, align your hdu piece in position, push an awl through the hole into the HDU to mark your dead center for the stud.)
For Gerald, for both DiBond or Alumalite, I've simply sanded the painted panel to let your pain have something to grab onto. No primer, just topcoat. I've used Porter (Acri-shield)acrylic house paint, One Shot (when it was still good) and automotives without any adhesion problems. The two brands I mentioned are not powder coated, they are proprietary paints, a polyester paint I believe.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Gerald, I've been trying to get some answers for a long time, about getting something to stick to these powdercoated panels, with not much luck so far. Haven't tried it yet, but I've been using a primer by Zinsser, called Cover Guard (Lowe's) that sticks like crazy to most anything. Might be worth a shot. I'm going to try and contact the manufacturer, for their recommendations on finishes that may be used on this surface. So far, not much sticks.
Rusty, you were concerned about the different expansion rates between the aluminum and the HDU. I think I might prefer to try some silicone adhesive, rather than the epoxy, to compensate.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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Dave; I always scuff the panel if painting it and that doesn't seem to help much, which surprises me. It works ok on bare aluminum so I think it is the factory top coat. I'm using Alumalite panels. I used to have a similar problem when striping white Ford trucks. Nothing would stick to the front fenders and hood. Not much chance to scuff on a new truck. I wonder if the new water base primers for auto body would be any better?
-------------------- Gerald Barlow Artworx Turlock, CA
95380 artworx@bigvalley.net Posts: 198 | From: Turlock, CA 95380, USA | Registered: Dec 2002
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We'll I'm wondering if they have changed their paint. I have painted Alumalite with Porter latex, automotives, and years ago, One Shot when it was still good, and every sign lasted years. And my only prep was scuffing with a 3M pad and then cleaning thoroughly.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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TEST THE KILZ FIRST. To find out if ti works for you. At Sherwin Williams...
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Dave, for all these years, all those aluminum panels were painted, with real paint....what we were told was, it was baked enamel. This is the same stuff they use on the outside of semi-trailers....very tough and easy to paint, as you described.
These new panels, for the most part, are not painted, but powder coated....an entirely different process. There are many conflicting pieces out, on how easy or not easy it is, to paint this stuff.
I know, normal prep and paint does not work, and the paint will peel right off. Past work I've done on race cars was "iffy" also, as the touch-up did not want to stick on chipped/scratched areas very well.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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Scuff or sand, Degrease or Lacquer thinner wash. Had good luck with SW Multi-Purpose primer. It is waterbased. Have also had good luck with Ben Moore DTM on most any surface with or without primer. Must do the prep.
-------------------- Bob Sauls Sauls Signs & Designs Tallahassee, Fl
"Today I'll meet nice people and draw for them!" Posts: 765 | From: Tallahassee, Fl | Registered: Jun 2009
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After exhaustive testing and unbridaled expense, I've come up with an illustration of what will and will not stick to powder coating.
The test panel is a scrap piece of the 3/16" aluminum composite material, with red powder coating. I wiped it down, twice, with Rapid Prep; marked it roughly halfway, and lightly sanded the right side with 150 grit sandpaper...just enough so that there are the slightest signs of the background aluminum showing. Remember, powder coating is VERY thin, so it's easy to sand thru.
All the paint samples were done last Friday, the 20th, and allowed to sit/dry in the house til today. These were paints I've used on a regular basis, and had on hand.
With just scratching with my fingernail,as you can see, none of them did a great job on the left, non-sanded side; some failed miserably. As you can see on the right, sanding seemed to be the key to adhesion.
The 1 Shot with acrylic enamel hardener did great, as did the Zinsser Cover Stain primer, and the 1 Shot on the bottom. The acrylics did pretty well too, but didn't seem to fare quite as well.
Gives a bit of insight on what may do a better job on a particular project. What's still unanswered to me, is what if you're doing any hand lettering or border work on these panels? Sanding will certainly ruin the factory finish , and it's pretty impossible to just sand the areas where lettering or borders will go.
So, are the manufacturers trying to tell us we've got to stop using paint.....or what?