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» The Letterville BullBoard » Letterhead/Pinstriper Talk » Manual dexterity 2013

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Author Topic: Manual dexterity 2013
Dennis Kiernan
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Here's a foto taken at the highest academically rated private high school in San Francisco. The kids are studying mechanical drawing, doing some perspective views. Notice the way the girl is holding her pencil. This, or something similar to it, seems to be the way almost all the kids hold them now. They arent taught any different.

BTW this school has a fencing team.
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[ April 22, 2013, 03:37 AM: Message edited by: Dennis Kiernan ]

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dennis kiernan
independent artist
san francisco, calif, usa

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bill riedel
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To hold a pencil like that, it looks impossible to do anything fine. You are using your arm instead of your fingers. What you would expect from an infant or a cave man.

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Bill Riedel
Riedel Sign Co., Inc.
15 Warren Street
Little Ferry, N.J. 07643
billsr@riedelsignco.com

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old paint
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and they thought us left handers wrote weird)))))))))))

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joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
850-637-1519
BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

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Dale Feicke
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Surely, you've heard of the "dumbing down" of our society, Dennis.

Many schools now don't teach writing or cursive at all, just keyboarding. Sad.

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Dale Feicke Grafix
714 East St.
Mendenhall, MS 39114

"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."

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Michael Clanton
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I teach drawing and cartooning classes to kids- that is the first thing I go off on is the correct way to hold your pencil- that and using a light touch, lots of lines, no erasers- that is ok to have a bunch of lines in a drawing- it shows you were looking and correcting to match what you see... kids who hold pencils like that generally have a heavy hand when they try to draw- they want to put one heavy line down with no mistakes- they get frustrated very quick.

Our school still teaches and grades penmanship- which is very rare these days. They have these little rubber grips that put on pencils that force them to hold it correctly...

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Michael Clanton
Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio
1933 Blackberry
Conway AR 72034
501-505-6794
clantongraphics@yahoo.com

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Tony McDonald
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My daughter holds her pencil that way...drives me nuts.

Not sure if they did this everywhere, but around here a few years ago when kids were learning to write, the teachers would let kids spell words however they thought they should be spelled, then try to teach them correct spelling later. I'll find out in a couple years when the grandkids go to school.

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Ace Graphics & Printing
Camdenton, MO. USA

acegraphics1@sbcglobal.net

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Dennis Kiernan
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If you want to see something really pitiful, take a look at this YouTube by a young lady who fancies herself a drawing teacher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=9hFG3x0OQ5U&NR=1

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dennis kiernan
independent artist
san francisco, calif, usa

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Don Coplen
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Dale, if it weren't for keyboarding, we probably would have never found BinLaden.

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...

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Dale Feicke
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I never said there was anything wrong with keyboarding, Don.

It should be used along with learning to write and spell.......not replace it.

It's a sad day in this country, when so many young people can't write a coherent sentence, or have a clue, where the Washington monument is.

A good many years ago, the US was in a constant competition with Russia, to see who had the most intelligent high school students in the world. Today, the US is way, way down the list.

Many of the basic building blocks to a child's education (basic math, English, history etc.), that most of us were taught as kids, are now gone. I'd like to know what schools ARE teaching nowadays; but I'm almost afraid of what I'd find out.

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Dale Feicke Grafix
714 East St.
Mendenhall, MS 39114

"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."

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Joe Cieslowski
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"what schools ARE teaching now"

Dale,

The schools are now teaching way over the heads of a lot of kids because we've been "raising the standards" for the last 30 years. The best part is that with all the testing with "standard" tests the kids are learning at an early age that they are failures....and guess what? they give up.

The things we learned about penmanship and other manual skills aren't taught any more because there isn't enough time.....to busy teaching "to the tests".

However, kids today can type (text?) a lot faster with one finger than I ever could! [Wink]

Go figure.

Joe,

Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!

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Joe Cieslowski
Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery
P.O.Box 368
East Canaan CT 06024
jcieslowski@snet.net
860-824-0883

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David Harding
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I hold a pencil better than that and I have my hand in a cast! Of course, I can't control it worth a flip right now.

Before the latest round of fractures, my penmanship was that of a doctor, now my scrawling matches the head of The Journal of the American Medical Association.

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David Harding
A Sign of Excellence
Carrollton, TX

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Shirley Carron
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Whaaatt!!!
You didn't thoroughly enjoy that little tutoral Dennis? ....guess I won't buy you that painting for Christmas then...

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Shirley Carron
Black Sheep Designs
184 John St. N.
Arnprior,On.,Canada
shirleyc@magma.ca
613-623-7053

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Ken Henry
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That grip is Classic Porn Star, and it isn't usually a pencil being gripped.

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Ken Henry
Henry & Henry Signs
London, Ontario Canada
(519) 439-1881
e-mail: kjmlhenry@rogers.com

Why do I get all those on-line offers to sell me Viagara, when the only thing hardening is my arteries ?

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Rusty Bradley
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Well maybe they're not teaching kids how to hold a pencil right but maybe those kids on the fencing team are building some nice fences.

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Rusty Bradley
Bradley Sign Studio
100 Creekview Road
Summertown, Tn. 38483

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Dennis Kiernan
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That's very nice of you, Shirley. I'll return the favor and not send you that truckload of turtles I had planned.

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dennis kiernan
independent artist
san francisco, calif, usa

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Dale Feicke
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Here's a little piece, I found that pretty much sums up much of the schooling today ( I didn't write it):


It’s September again and most of the kids are going back to school, or going for the first time. But it isn’t like it used to be. Not by a long shot.

When I went to school from the late ‘40s thru the early ‘60s (I know. I’m dating myself.), the object was to learn. And learn we did. Instead of kindergarten and pre-kindergarten …which is now preceded by various forms of child care when the kid presumably learns to relate to his or her peers and be part of a group… we started school in the first grade.

If a child didn’t know how to read before he got to school, he started learning right away. Not just reading but spelling, the multiplication tables, arithmetic and how to tell time. They were even taught penmanship. You know, how to hold your pen or pencil and write clearly? How many people today do you know whose scrawl rivals that of doctors? And when it comes to the way they hold their pens….

As for learning to get along with their peers, that was a natural progression of teacher influence and playground interaction. It also didn’t hurt that most parents were exactly that. Parents. They taught their children to behave, have respect for authority and not talk back to their teachers.

Way back when, report cards were totally different from what they are today. First of all, you had to earn your grade. There was no such thing as social promotion. Even more shocking was that at least half the report card was devoted to…Shock! Amazement!.. something called Citizenship. You were actually graded on citizenship. Areas of concern included Courtesy, Cooperation, Obedience, Industry, Effort, Thrift, Dependability, Health, Neatness, Orderliness and Self-reliance.

If a child was frequently sick or severely underweight, it wasn’t reported to the Child Protective Service. The teacher or principal talked to the parents and/or accepted a note from the doctor and the word of the parent.

Good thing, too. I was the sickly kid in the crowd, due to major chest surgery when I was five. I was in school barely more than I was out and couldn’t gain weight if you handed me an anvil. Despite the fact I was blessed with good parents, CPS would’ve put me in protective custody and investigated my parents for child abuse. To give you an idea of just how scrawny, when I graduated from the 8th grade, I was 5’4” and weighed 78 pounds. Today I’m
6’1” and weigh about 189.

Being absent so much wasn’t a detriment to me. Thanks to my parents and, I suppose, a fairly decent level of intelligence, I had no problem keeping up with my classes. I was using a telephone and reading before I was three, knew the multiplication tables and how to tell time before starting school. I also had a full-blown set of adult encyclopedias that I used to satisfy my curiosity. It didn’t hurt that my mother, when I asked a question, didn’t say “go look it up.” Instead she said “Let’s go look it up.”

According to the teacher, I was reading on a 6th grade level when I started 1st grade, but the truth was that I could pretty well read anything you put in front of me by that time.

For practical purposes, I was partially home schooled before home schooling existed as an industry. Between that and an insatiable curiosity that drives self-education, I’ve wound up with an education substantially beyond the GED that I can claim on a formal level.

But it isn’t that way for a lot of kids today. Education has been dumbed down and many schools are little more than prisons with the teachers acting as wardens. If you doubt that, spend some time on the internet to find out how many schools have metal detectors and the number of weapons they’ve confiscated. School security guards routinely patrol student parking lots to spot weapons that the students forgot they had or didn’t hide sufficiently.

High School graduates can barely read on an 8th grade level. In Texas there’s a test called TAKS (Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills) that students must pass at specific points. Since teachers are evaluated in part on how many of their students pass the TAKS …or more accurately, how many fail it… they wind up teaching to the test and not bothering to teach anything not directly related to it. Other problems that teachers have to deal with are students who cannot speak English and are still required to take the TAKS, even though they will most likely fail it. Finally, special ed students are now being mainstreamed into classes, even though they are not capable of performing at grade level.

But the problems go even deeper. For example, a member of my family is a history teacher in what are called AP classes…and no, that doesn’t stand for Associated Press. It is a very rigorous international program called Advanced Placement. While all students have to pass the TAKS to graduate from high school, those who complete the AP class and make a certain score or higher on the AP test qualify for college credit.

This year, they wound up 40 books short, but not according to the administration. Their logic is that the teachers somehow lost 40 books when the truth is that 40 additional students enrolled. So, you have the same number of books as last year but 40 more students. But will 40 more books be ordered to replace the ones the teachers ‘lost’? Your guess is as good as mine.

Public education today is a lost cause in many parts of the country. Teachers and the better educators are fighting a valiant rear guard action, but it’s essentially a losing proposition. Federal regulation, federal funding, fantasyland promises of free college education for every child, escalating costs and a general dumbing down of the curriculum offered is destroying what’s left of quality education and preventing its revival in most instances.

What’s left? Self-education, home schooling, Christian schools, private schools and internet-based schools. None of these answers are perfect, but they do work and work well.

No matter how you slice it, all of the choices just listed are far and away better than the public option.

Amen.

[ April 25, 2013, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Dale Feicke ]

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Dale Feicke Grafix
714 East St.
Mendenhall, MS 39114

"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."

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Joe Cieslowski
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Nice opinion piece Dale. I would agree that the opinions expressed in this piece are commonly held and are really part of the problem. It's really quite simple.....our public schools are failing our country, right? The answer in this piece is to go private.....weather in home or private schools.

Why not do both? When folks see where their school is falling short in some area with their kid.....fill in the gaps at home. Fix it!!!! Fix it yourself.

Naaa, just blame your school. Don't take any responsibility for your own kids education. Blame the system.....couldn't be me, right?

I believe what is different now than when we were growing up is the expectations of our parents. They insisted that we get a good education. They never once blamed the teachers or the schools for my failings.

People can blame the schools to relieve their own gilt or they can fix it.......in their own home.

Just as a post script, I can't really believe that there is a school anywhere in the world that is not trying to educate their children to the best of their ability. Do you know of any?

That , of course, is just MY opinion.

Think about it.........

Joe,

Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!

[ April 25, 2013, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: Joe Cieslowski ]

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Joe Cieslowski
Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery
P.O.Box 368
East Canaan CT 06024
jcieslowski@snet.net
860-824-0883

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Dale Feicke
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This is such a far-reaching subject, Joe. Several points, I would imagine schools vary widely in curriculum and teaching methods, in different areas of the country. Just as a general statement, I'd imagine that public schools in your area are better than those in my neck of the woods. Teachers are paid more,up north; Mississippi is a poorer economy. Bottom line, you get what you pay for.

We have teachers here, that have lesser degrees, some that I've heard ( can't confirm it's gospel) have teaching certificates that they've gotten on-line. I have no doubts that they are of a lesser quality than those in schools paying quite a bit more. And it's in more places than just here.

And I don't honestly believe some of these teachers are doing the best they can. We've all seen reports from many sources, where problem or slow students are just promoted anyway, to get them up and out of schools. Some of these teachers view this as "20 and out", do the minimum they can get by with and end up with a retirement package.

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Dale Feicke Grafix
714 East St.
Mendenhall, MS 39114

"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."

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Joe Cieslowski
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I agree with everything you've said there Dale. All is not equal across this country and yes there are some lousy teachers out there......I've known some personally. As you may know, I taught for 9 years and in that time I was required to earn a masters.....the standards were high....and still are.

I had to leave because with the pay I was getting, (with a wife and two young kids) I was eligible for food stamps. Ten industrial arts teachers left the same school system the year I did and started our own businesses. We had both skills and an education....win win. That was in 1979.

Shortly after I left, the state started testing all the kids for "mastery" in key subjects and the schools were held responsible to reach those goals. Guess what? The schools did it! They reached the standards.

Well, we can't have that can we? The state has since "raised the standards" FOUR times and they have pushed expectations for higher learning into lower and lower grades where the kids can no longer handle it.

The best part? No more reviews....you go from one grade to another and the teachers will NOT be allowed to review the previous years work with the kids. HUH????

How is that for "high" standards??

IMO, that is a system designed for failure across a broad spectrum of families. And when the kids fail???? the teachers will loose their job. Can you say bye bye career?

Why would anyone want to be a teacher under that system?

Yup, there are a lot of problems in public education in this country and the Govt. that controls it has got us convinced that it's the schools fault......not them.

Go figure.................

Joe,

Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!

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Joe Cieslowski
Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery
P.O.Box 368
East Canaan CT 06024
jcieslowski@snet.net
860-824-0883

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Dave Sherby
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One major problem in this country is that kids don't go to school all summer long. There are two downsides to this. One, the kids forget a lot of what they learned over the summer, two, animosity from the general public toward teachers who get the summer off along with the kids. When teachers can produce kids that have the potential to make $100,000 a year, why are we satisfied with paying them $40,000? This differential in earning power is what has sent many brilliant people into private enterprise instead of teaching.

Teaching to the test is a major problem and I don't understand why the people that regulate education don't see this when almost everyone else does. Creativity is being stifled in the classroom and on it's present course we will not be producing any inventors in the near future. That lack of creativity is also hurting the arts because art and music are not considered to be part of core curriculum and as money gets tight, those are the first to go.

My wife was the art teacher at our local school. Within 2 years of her taking over the art department which was K through 12, she had 2 to 3 kids a year that majored in some form of art in college. She got to the top of the ladder in teacher salary, money got tight, so they cut the art program to 3 periods a day. This put my wife at part time with no benefits. Thank goodness she was beyond full retirement,although she still loved to teach and did not want to retire. The total art at our school now is a measly 1 class a day. My wife is there almost every day as a sub. When she subbed for the art/math teacher, she saw their work on the wall. The one high school art class was producing the work my wife's 3rd graders were doing.

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Dave Sherby
"Sandman"
SherWood Sign & Graphic Design
Crystal Falls, MI 49920
906-875-6201
sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net

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Michael Clanton
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My wife teaches at a private Christian School (and makes almost HALF of what a public school teacher makes- grrr- throwing money at a problem does not solve it)

Her school teaches many of the same skills and methods that have been taught for over 100 years- Reading, Writing, Arithmetic, etc.- they still teach Phonics to learn to read, which part of the country has abandoned for cooler, hip teaching methods that absolutely don't work. She specializes in English, Composition, Parts of Speech, Grammar, Punctuation- important things to teach- she has been openly criticized by some of her public school teacher/peers as teaching "outdated and unnecessary" things like grammar and punctuation- Most of her Public school peers are doing nothing more than trying to teach JUST enough to pass a standardized test- nothing more- most of the kids coming out of school these day not only can't hold a pencil correctly or know anything about penmanship, they don't even have a clue HOW to write in complete sentences.

Before our adoption was final, 2 of my kids went to one of our public schools (which our city has better schools than most) My 3rd grade daughter came to us to help her with multiplication, they were teaching her 1,2,3,4,5, and 10 multiplication, skipping the rest of the multiplication facts- they spent 3 days on that topic then quickly jumped to 2 days of teaching division- , then spent 2 weeks on graphing... all because they were going to be taking a standardized test which had a little simple multiplication, a couple of division problems and several graphing questions...

My other BIG rant is- schools do not teach industrial arts anymore- no wonder our country does not produce much anymore, we have several generations that don't know how to weld, drafting, work with metal or wood, construction techniques, electronics... I went to school with guys who were not cut out of for office work, but could weld beautifully- not everybody fits the current education mold- teach them skills that will help them succeed in life...

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Michael Clanton
Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio
1933 Blackberry
Conway AR 72034
501-505-6794
clantongraphics@yahoo.com

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David Wright
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Bring back trade schools and quit requiring degrees for jobs that should never require it.
Just a pipe dream.

Btw, she is holding the pen wrong.

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Wright Signs
Wyandotte, Michigan

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