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I am having major bubble issues with the 3M Scotchlite 680 series film I am using. I tried to google application methods and videos and it seems I am cleaning and applying to the service correctly, but still have way too many bubbles.
Any suggestions on ways to apply or what material may be better to use? It's on vehicles, to it needs to be long term outdoors.
Thanks, Pam
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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Dry is best. But sometimes I use a bit of Rapid tac application fluid when I want to "Float" it over some regular vinyl.. And yes, ya gotta pinhole out the excess liguid under the vinyl.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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I used 680 on vehicles for years and never had a problem. Always wet applied and used Rapid Tac and then Rapid II when it came out. Never had a failure or a bubbling problem. Cleaned with Rapid prep and then the Tac or Tac II. When I thought it was clean I cleaned it again and when I thought I was done squeeging I squeeged again. Many years ago I talked to a 3M rep and he said the main problem when wet applying was not geting the liquid completely squeeged out. Then, when the job failed the product was blamed. That is why they put "do not wet apply" in their product bulletin and recommend dry application. It wasn't that it will hurt the product.
Hope this helps.
-------------------- Robert Graham Grahamsville Signs 1120 E McReavy Road Union, Washington 98592 360-898-2260 Fax 360-898-2262 e-mail:gvs@hctc.com Posts: 135 | From: Union,Washington - USA | Registered: Oct 1999
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Try 680-CR which is controltac removable with comply adhesive..the glue has tiny channels that allow air to escape.Its impossible to get bubbles with his material, Unfortunately is expensive...but ask yourself ... do I want a good job or a cheap job for my client. cheap job includes free bubbles... 680 CR is recommended for stainless by 3M..... you will love working with it.
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Dittos on the 680cr. I use it on a lot of emergency vehicles. It does cost a little more, but the labor and headaches it saves more than makes up for it.
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Thanks for your input. The first tech support guy I talked to was reading from a script and very little help. The second guy I talked to yesterday was very informative and goes out on location himself to work with the customer on issues. I will try the 680cr.
Thanks for the info on the material and the wet application. My fear is not getting all the liquid out, so I almost always apply material dry.
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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double ditto on the 680cr, on all accounts. We do quite a few ambulances, and the 680cr has become the standard. There is a cost difference, but the time and stress saved definitely makes up for the difference. We even layer reflectives with relative ease, all dry.
-------------------- Grant P. Giddings GiddingSIgns 1105 4th St. SE Hampton, IA 50441 Posts: 9 | From: Hampton, IA USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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more on 680 cr....we tile different colors tightly.. side by side...if you dont mash the film too hard..you can "schooch" it a bit sideways...the final product will look like a print
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Yes, there is quite a price difference with the 680cr. Have to add another $80 per 30"x 10yard roll. I bought some Friday and there is a world of difference. I'm not happy at all with the regular 680.
Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.
-------------------- Pam Eddy Niles, MI ple@qtm.net Posts: 460 | From: Michigan | Registered: Dec 2000
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I use the 3M 5100 series for small lettering and stripes. I've done several cars using a wet application. Have not had any problems, been doing this over 5 years.
-------------------- Jean Shimp Shimp Sign & Design Co. Jacksonville Beach, Fl Posts: 1266 | From: Jacksonville Beach, Fl. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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680 cr has tiny channels in a grid form it looks like they laid a piece of window screen on it and made the channels if you apply this product wet there is no way you will be able to get all the app fluid out.
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Robert you are correct "it dosn't hurt the film" most people dont realise its the cleaning method used that can trap air. Residues left from cleaning with products such as iso alcohol, window cleaners ,household cleaners or paint industry solvents all leave residues that will mix with the Rapid Tac application and you lose the benefit of squeegeeing out bubbles and or fast bonding.
Even wipeing with rags or the wrong paper towells will cause same. Thats why for 25 years we tell people (also in instruction panel) "clean only with Rapid Tac or TacII and CHEAP grocery store paper towels" (no chemicals in the cheap paper towels).
IT MAKES SUCH A BIG DIFFERENCE people call me back and are extatic about how for years having been told to use iso alcohol or windex or wax& grease solvents, then they follow our instructions and see how easy and fast and quality enhanced the job can be.
Its just so simple "Rapid Tac and Tac II were designed to clean but leave a compatable residue, so adhesives bond fast and firm".
Oh and remember,anything you clean with will leave a residue (maybe lanolyn, silicon, amonia, polymer) ???
Stepping down from soap box now! Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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