posted
Here's the problem. I don't do digital printing or vehicle wraps. I believe I do nice design work when it comes to vinyl or painted truck lettering.
Many customers who come to me lately for truck lettering, after I discuss different options, eventually say, "do you do wraps?" It seems to be the "in" thing that everyone wants. But many of the wraps or digital print stuff I see is bad; the person doing them obviously doesn't understand layout and design.
I see dark green letters with triple outlines against a background of dark green foliage. I see trucks cluttered with detailed photos and tons of copy that zip by and I still don't know what service they're offering.
Yet the customer can't see that they're poorly designed. All the customer sees is, "ooooh, there's my name in fancy letters." They can't see their vehicle through the eyes of someone who doesn't know who they are or what they do.
How do you sell someone on clean, basic vinyl or painted truck lettering when they have wraps on the brain? How do you convince someone that their truck with a $3000 wrap is unreadable to someone who doesn't know who they are?
posted
They do not care. They just want the look. Got to sell a look.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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Show picture of wraps of course failures, before's and after's, clutters, poor installs, poor contrasts, bad images. Compare against your awesome work. Still want wrap your design ability also what your able to do without fail of course.
posted
I agree with Craig. There are some people who won't be talked out of what they want no matter what you do. But, some will be convinced if you can show some clear examples of good and bad with pictures.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I'm wondering what the thinking will be in a few years when the wraps start fading and have to be removed from the vehicles. How hard is it by the way to remove a wrap. Is it easier or more difficult than high performance vinyl? I think wraps are great when they are done right.
-------------------- Jean Shimp Shimp Sign & Design Co. Jacksonville Beach, Fl Posts: 1266 | From: Jacksonville Beach, Fl. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I agree with having a little comparison portfolio, along with the Return On Investment. I think there will be some unhappy customers whne that $3000 starts looking like caca in 3 years. And wraps can be a pian to take off if not done with the right material, and you can bet the cheap wraps aren't done on the good stuff. But I also think a well designed wrap can be an awesome marketin tool.
posted
I can't believe this. After how many years? First of all wraps are designed as well or as poorly as any other sign job. Secondly they are installed as well or as poorly as any other sign job. There is good money to be made in wraps, just as there is in any other job designed well installed well and priced well. No they are not a Fad! They have been around for years, just as digital printers have. Are they going to go away to be replaced by hand lettering? Not likely. Do you have to do them? NO.
Tell your client you do not do them. You do hand lettering. But do not whine when there are no clients because you refused to do the work the clients want. Or try to tell a client he does not want that type of signage because you do not do it. It is your perogative to not do them. It is their perogative to get whatever they want. Its their money. And wraps, digital, CNC stuff, none of it is going to go away any time soon. Nor are cars. But there are communities who still like to ride horse and buggy. Its their perogative. Find the customers who appreciate your fine type of work. Concentrate on them. If you cannot find them in your area perhaps its time to diversify. Because chances are you won't be able to tell someone riding a horse that they should be driving a car. And chances are someone who wants a car will not be happy being told they are not well made and they should buy a horse.
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
wraps suck. thats all there is to it. I don't do them I don't suggest them. My selling tool when explaining to someone that does want them is "why do you wanna pay extra money to wrap areas on your vehicle that won't be seen"
I will wrap a box truck but I will not do a car or other vehicle with such curves and what not.
Actually around here Im seeing less and less of these hideous things I guess the local wrapper across the river it out of business, he was hooking up vans for $1000 and buddy it was worse than horrible
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
The biggest problem with wraps is that it's easy to overdo it, at the computer it looks nice but in real life i look like C***.
90 % of the wraps around here are pointless, and the 10 % that work could have been done in vinyl!!
The same goes for banners, they are everywhere here now, and 99% are faded, ripped, hung sloppy, and or impossible to read, I don't get that people will advertise their business this way!!!???
quote:Originally posted by Teddy Carlsen: The biggest problem with wraps is that it's easy to overdo it, at the computer it looks nice but in real life i look like C***.
90 % of the wraps around here are pointless, and the 10 % that work could have been done in vinyl!!
The same goes for banners, they are everywhere here now, and 99% are faded, ripped, hung sloppy, and or impossible to read, I don't get that people will advertise their business this way!!!???
Teddy
Well said!
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
same argument when vinyl came out, crappy colours, crappy layout... and around and around it goes, where it stops, nobody knows Well said Deri, there are good uncluttered wraps that work, and expensive junk good vinyl jobs and crap good hand painted stuff and crap, some of which I have done, on both counts it is as it has always been and always will be, the equipment does what it is told, for better or worse, it's a poor craftman that blames the tools, and it is about the design, not how it got on the truck. That said, I still love handpainted stuff and can stare at it for hours
-------------------- Pete Payne Willowlake Design/Canadian Signcrafters Bayfield, ON
posted
I'm a man of the brush just like Peter. We have printers, cutters etc but it's not really the type of work I want to be doing. I think of computer aided signs as high volume low profit type of work when back in the day it was low volume high profit. Simple solution Peter, Target the market that you want to do. We always try to sell painted signs, not only do they last longer but they are also better for the environment. However if a customer is sold on vinyl, well a man has to eat! If you can stripe and letter well try chasing the custom work like bikes and hot rods. Most people don't know that hand lettering even exists anymore so it is up to us to educate them! I find if your passionate about what you sell it rubs off on the client. Your trying to compete with the digital age without the tools to do it. having said all that no one these days wants to rub back and respray a vehicle to get rid of the signage. Buy yourself a printer if you want to do modern vehicle signage.
posted
Steering customers away from vinyl print is not easy. if advertisement seen up close a bit easier if they like quality looks such as show transportation, and customers that know the benefits of old school image. The last one sold I had a print made, was ready to mount rejected because painted work looked better,and they wanted a older school image cause it works. When selling one must go one step at a time and speak slowly calmly, vehicle wraps are fine but a painted wrap will look, last, with a more effective image, just takes a few extra days. With pictures and few words your able to lean the customers to proper advertisement be it print or paint, having the software and know how really helps.
I feel your pain, man. I struggled for a long time with the correct answer to this question since, like you, I don't do wraps either. When people asked me, "Do you do wraps?", I had to answer "No", and cringed a little inside because I felt it somehow made me appear less than professional or current in the eyes of the customer.
So I thought long and hard about it and realized that the issue was really selling the customer effective vehicle advertizing. Which is, after all, the crux of the biscuit. So now when people ask me about doing wraps, I explain that what they really need is effective vehicle advertising. That way I can take control of the topic and I can present myself and my skills as a designer and "sign expert".
Often a large part of our job is educating the customer and hopefully convincing him/her that what we are offering is better than our competition.
-------------------- Brian Oliver Paxton Signs Fort Collins, CO paxton@peakpeak.com www.paxtonsignsofcolorado.com Posts: 237 | From: ft. collins, colorado,usa | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I am still learning it all but my reply is that I do a partial wrap which for me means lots of vinyl in the end. I don't know how to do wraps that cover all of the body. I do use more of the vehicle's surface and try to have it all connect. I sell it by talking about the clarity of the service or product and their contact info. Usually, everything is larger covering more area.
Now to the question of "how to convince". The answer is "You don't." You let your work and your service speak for itself. That's all you really need.
That said, given the economy do we really want to risk losing a client because we don't provide a particular service? I know I don't. So how do we address the issue?
For me, the solution was simple. My approach is exactly Brian Oliver said.....So I thought long and hard about it and realized that the issue was really selling the customer effective vehicle advertizing. Which is, after all, the crux of the biscuit. So now when people ask me about doing wraps, I explain that what they really need is effective vehicle advertising. That way I can take control of the topic and I can present myself and my skills as a designer and "sign expert".
See if you can find someone you can work with in your area who can do the installs for you, preferably in your shop. This lets you expand your market and concentrate on design.
Brian wrote: "When people asked me, "Do you do wraps?", I had to answer "No", and cringed a little inside..."
But I would have answered with "We haven't yet found the need to do wraps..." and that gives you the opening to start to explain, as Brian & Glenn explained-that it is about EFFECTIVE advertising - cost effective & visually effective.
Just take a look at Rod Tickle's work- he's 'wrapped' in it, & the customers are 'rapt', but it's all hand done-no wraps. Urethanes & airbrushed work etc.
You could begin your spiel by asking the client" What is it about a wrap that they particularly like?" and then that'll give you what you need to know to sell your own work of potentially greater value.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Thanks for the responses. Just to clarify, the only painting I do now is if the customer wants airbrushed highlights. I've been doing vinyl for 10 years now and there are enough custom fonts available to get a hand-painted custom look with vinyl.
posted
Hiya Peter, Although it will take some effort, what about putting a portfolio together of side-by-side comparisons of good and bad designs?
Perhaps you can include some "before and after" shots of work you already did? If not, take some photos of some really bad designs in the area and give them a "make-over".
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Years ago, we had a customer who found a cheaper bidder on Phase II of their apartment complex. The sign we built on Phase I was sandblasted Granite with 23K Gold leaf. The cheaper sign was sandblasted Granite with gold paint. In a year, the north facing paint had faded to a dull brown, while our six year old Gold leaf still blazed in the sun. I took pictures and sold many a Gold leaf job by showing the difference.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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