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It seems as if it's time to re-train the peoples. The crazy customers who want stuff we don't like, you know, stinky design. I think that maybe, just maybe, I could say to them "Oh, I'm sorry, I don't do that type of work. I don't this type of work (Showing Samples). My work is much more ,,," I'm at a lost for words at that point. But you wouldn't go to Jack in de Box and order Lobster Almondine and you wouldn't go to a Five star restaurant for a $2.00 burger. I'd kinda like to re-train furture customers that I don't do crappy work. I sometimes wonder what do guys like Butler, Weber, Jackson, etc. say when a customer, not knowing who they are dealing with, walks in with their own crappy design. I like to see Dave's Butler's face when a person says, "Oh, I don't like all those outlines, my interior designer likes what I designed anyways" I mean what do you say after that,, "Madame, your car is being towed" And then lock the doors after they walk out.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3814 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Hahahahahahahaha! "Your car is being towed..."
Usted está un pintor preciosos signo señora!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Educating the public on the benefits of quality design and workmanship has always been difficult.... some people "get it" and some don't. Most of those who come to me, do so because they have seen my work, and trust me to do a good job on their project.
I like to spend some time with them, to understand what they have in mind, using the pictures in my portfolio to discover their likes and dislikes. Some have some very specific ideas and some don't really know what they want. Once a general direction is established, I ask if they would like something fancy, or simple, or somewhere in between. I also ask what their budget is, and many times they are willing to spend a little more to have something really nice.
It can be difficult when someone brings in some idea that their daughter drew, to delicately tell them that it sucks, and that I can design something that will do a better job of promoting their business. Sometimes I just have to tell them "I don't think I can help you" and wish them well. Those are usually the ones who are out of business in six months.
Then there are those who are ready to open the doors to their new business and realize "oh yeah, I need a sign", having already spent most of the budget on fixtures and inventory, instead of planning for the logo and signs early in the project.
Several years ago, some of the sign shops in this area got together and formed the Sierra Sign Artists Association. It was good while it lasted... we had demos and cost discussions at the meetings, and hosted several letterhead meets. Ultimately the association died due to not enough members willing to devote some time to it.
I had collected several magazine articles on the subject of good design and planned to put that information together in the form of a brochure the members could give to a new customer, explaining the benefits of quality design, using some stories of successful businesses and showing examples of poor design and good design. Maybe I should drag out that information and put it together, present it to Letterville for comment, and when finalized, post it so that everyone could print it with their own photos and information, to give to their customers.
I don't want to hijack Alicia's topic....so I will post the brochure idea in another thread..... if you have comments on that subject, please post them there....
-------------------- Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain ! Jim Moser Design 13342 C Grass Valley Ave. Grass Valley, Ca. 95945 530-273-7615 jwmoser@att.net Posts: 488 | From: Grass Valley, Ca. | Registered: May 2006
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About 10 years ago, I walked into a tax service place. Thought I'd sell them a new sign, "A new image". After talking to this cow for a while. She asked me "What's wrong with her sign?" I told her "It looks like a 10 year old did it" She gave this glare, tore up my business card in front of me and said " I guess we don't need your services" I said "Okay" and walked out.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3814 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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Alicia. You have experienced someone who is a member of the I want this my way club and It don't matter how much positive input you make of how crapy their grand daughters design is...they want change it cause they don't want to p---sombody off.The big move on statement is.. I'm gonna get a new sign after the first of the year.So I say we are goin' to be covered up after the first of the year and maybe by then we will have these self made know-it-alls figured out.
Number 1 mistake a signman should never make! Never provide 2 pieces of art because... it gets that wife and friends involved and you will probable starve to death before they deside which looks the best.
-------------------- Bill Wood Bill Wood, Sign Artist 3628 Ogburn Ave., NE Winston-Salem, NC 27105-3752 336-682-5820 Posts: 397 | From: Winston-Salem, NC | Registered: May 2006
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How many times does the topic of "customer designed stuff" come up???
I believe it is right up there with "I am not able to make a living"
As much as it might hurt an "artist's" ego to produce something ugly that a customer wants, isn't it in the best interests of being in business to do it and deposit the cheque?
The phrase "starving artist" has been around for decades. There must be a reason for that.
The sign business is a business and if one wants to earn a living in a business, one has to provide what the customer wants.
I did some ugly work and I did some work that I thought was good. Both the ugly and the good paid well. In fact, sometimes, the ugly paid better than the good because the customer's nephew was happy.
Bottom line...are you in business to please your artistic ego or to earn a decent living?
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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Only recently have I started to give persons exactly what they ask for, I think I do this because I am retired and don't give a $hit. Sometimes it looks good and sometimes it doesn't but still I don't give a ratsass
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
Most people dont know good art from trash. If you knock yourself out trying to give them something better they usually cant see the difference anyway, and will just complain about the "unnecessary" time you spent on the job. It's easier to save your psychic energy for the quality work and, like Joey says, knock out the piece of junk nice and fast. Pearls cast before swine and all that sort of stuff. I worked for a jerk one time who wd give me a design job on which I wd develop several nice possibilities. The client wd show up unexpectedly and he'd rush in, spot my first discarded idea, and grab it saying, "That's good enough", and take off without even looking at the good ones. I used to kick myself for the time I wasted trying to do good work for him.
-------------------- dennis kiernan independent artist san francisco, calif, usa Posts: 907 | From: san francisco, ca usa | Registered: Feb 2010
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Joey, I like your attitude. I have 5 kids, put them in private school. lots of expenses, etc. Sometimes what looks good to me has to take a backseat to what the customer wants so I can hurry up and get paid. When it all comes to a head, I realize there are some people that are a joy to deal with and others you just have to labor through, get it done and move on. As long as their check clears, that's all I care about with people like that.
posted
At one time I had a price list that would be brought out for just this occasion. All of the prices were way to high for anyone with common sense. If they did concure...well...cha-ching !
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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[ September 05, 2010, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: jack wills ]
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I just parted ways with a former customer. She owns a handful of businesses. WM $ in the family.Always seemed to get along fine.New project,I spent a couple days meeting with client,photographing property, talking to BI and city officials about zoning and getting a variance for an appropriate monument sign.Conversation changed from I want the best sign to I need four signs in a week and my right hand has come up with a design I like.Needless to say right hand is the niece.Red flags!! No lead time & nephew art.I spent 3 hrs reworking the wonderful art.The committee of 2 hated it so I said give me print ready work & I'll meet your new deadline with digital prints.I billed her only for my 3 hrs design time @ $40/hr. (Save the lectures on that is too cheap please). She screamed at me on the phone and couldn't believe I wanted that kind of $.You do this to me every time.I said what? Send you a bill? She replied, "Just remember where your referrals come from".I wondered where all the no budget tire kickers came from.What came to mind is poor planning on your part doesn't make a crisis for me.Anyway, I sent her a bill, held my tongue and don't really expect to see any mail from that gem from the hospitality business.She is crafting her own sign. Oh yeah, it just felt good to vent.
-------------------- Darcy Baker Darcy's Signs Eureka Springs. AR. Posts: 1169 | From: Eureka Springs, AR | Registered: Nov 2007
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I'm sorry you had such a diffcult time with your client. Perhaps she was having a bad day.
I'd consider sending her a set of flowers and let her know you value her friendship and business. Who knows what problems she's having.
Even if she falls off the wagon this time, the future stretches out front.
I look forward to seeing more of your fine work.
-------------------- Joe Crumley Norman Sign Company 2200 Research Park Blvd. Norman, OK 73069 Posts: 1428 | From: 2200 Research Park Blvd. | Registered: Sep 2001
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This is why I think I'm somewhat burned out in the sign business. I am at the point in my life where I can focus on my fine art and paint what I want to paint for a change. I'm slapping lots of vinyl on these days, collecting the check, then escaping to my studio every chance I get. That's my happy place.
posted
Alicia, when I had my shop I would try to find a balance between trying to educate a customer like this by saying something like; you know, I think I might be able to improve the advertising value of this sign by prioritizing the copy... and if they were dead set on their design, I went straight into "Dave Grundy" mode. Take the check and, like my instructor many years ago taught us, when the sign was done, you turn it against the wall or hide it so no one sees it until the customer picks it up. If you have to install said product, do it at night, in the rain or put magnets on your truck advertizing someone else!
If we inderstand that we are in the advertizing business and try to explain the effectiveness of a sign rather than the beauty, many times we can get through to them without making them defensive.
...just my two cents...
-------------------- Rick Heller Ohio Technical College 1374 E. 51st Street Cleveland, OH 44103 IOAFS Posts: 210 | From: Cleveland, OH | Registered: Nov 2001
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Joe, I was thinking if I send flowers to another woman I'd be in trouble.If I sent flowers to my wife I'd have to explain what I'd done wrong.Think I'll stay away from flowers.When i get a check and a civil word I'll have another Christmas card to send.Life shouldn't be so complicated. I'll just paint and deal with those who appreciate my work.
-------------------- Darcy Baker Darcy's Signs Eureka Springs. AR. Posts: 1169 | From: Eureka Springs, AR | Registered: Nov 2007
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