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» The Letterville BullBoard » Letterhead/Pinstriper Talk » A gilding question for the gold experts....

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Author Topic: A gilding question for the gold experts....
Glenn Taylor
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Here is the senario....

I have a black aluminum panel. The black is the factory finish.

I've cleaned the surface with 90+ isopropol alcohol.

Then I've screen printed quick size onto the panel and let size dry until it sings.

I apply 23k patent leaf to the panel, let it set for another hour (mainly because customers came in to see me), and then began to burnish with cotton batting.

The problem I'm having is that some of the gold has stuck to the unsized portions of black panel and I can seem to remove it. I've tried lifting it with scotch tape which did get the meat of the excess off but it still leaves tiny specks on the surface plus I still need a way to get the excess still stuck to the panel away from the letters.

I've stripped the panels with lacquer thinner and I'm getting ready to try again.

My thought is to clean the surface with a BonAmi cake, rinse with distilled water and let air dry.

Is there anything I can do to the surface to prevent the excess leaf from sticking again or at least make it easier to clean off?

Should I try smearing the surface with a cut potato prior to screening the size perhaps?

When the gilding is complete, I've got to cover the surface of the panel with doming resin (RDS/Acuflow).

Thanks.

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BlueDog Graphics
Wilson, NC

www.BlueDogUSA.com

Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.

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Rick Sacks
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After washing the panel and letting it dry, dust it with talcum powder and rub it all over then blow it off as best you can with a compressor. Also Glenn, dust your fingers too before handling it. Then the procedure you did will work for you. You can use the potato starch, I like the talc or kaolin better.

Also, on the bright flecks, try the eraser on the end of a pencil.

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The SignShop
Mendocino, California

http://www.mendosign.com

Making the simple complicated is commonplace;
making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus

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Raymond Chapman
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Good old 100% organic spit works good to remove those small specks of gold left behind also.

It's convenient, cheap and will not harm the ozone layer.

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Chapman Sign Studio
Temple, Texas
chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net

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Tim Barrow
Deceased


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Rick has the answer here for you Glenn,..Rick Glawson used to tell us to use koalin instead of talcum but either will work,... kaolin would probably work better if you want to apply it before you screen your size as it is much finer and won't clump up in the size when you screen it. Ditto what Rick said about the fingerprints and the oily residue that the gold will stick to,...

Edited to add,...when I was doing a lot of firetrucks in Bennetsville,SC with Jimmy Norris he taught me to brush a clear over the parts we wanted the gold to stay with a very fine overlap with a two part automotive clear immediately after we burnished the gold,....we would let that dry and then wash the excess off the new firetruck paint with a mild precleaner for automotive paint and a lint free paint rag. it worked fast and effectively to eliminaste any excess gold stuck to the new paint on the truck doors and didn't affect the gold under the clear.

[ August 27, 2010, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]

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fly low...timi/NC is,
Tim Barrow
Barrow Art Signs
Winston-Salem,NC

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Bob Rochon
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Glenn,

I won't consider my self an expert. but I'll share what works for me. I've tried everything from potato to Talc like Rick suggests. And all work. The current method I am using is Kaolin powder on the surface, it's a finer powder, leaves less powder to remove and seems to stick better for me. After I am done, if there is any area that still lingers, I use lighter fluid on a towel or q-tip to remove the unwanted gold that has seperation issues [Smile]

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Bob Rochon
Creative Signworks
Millbury, MA
508-865-7330

"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you."

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bill riedel
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Hi Tim, not considering myself an expert, what has worked for me is a light coat of lemon oil over the lettering left overnight. The next morning the excess comes off easily with cotton. The oil will evaporate leaving the gold looking fine.
There always is the time when you have done everything right, but because of some reason there is always some gold sticking to the surface.

Bill

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Bill Riedel
Riedel Sign Co., Inc.
15 Warren Street
Little Ferry, N.J. 07643
billsr@riedelsignco.com

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Glenn Taylor
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Thanks guys. You're a life saver.

Where would be a good source to buy the Kaolin powder. I'm shamed to admit it but I've never heard of it.

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BlueDog Graphics
Wilson, NC

www.BlueDogUSA.com

Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.

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Glenn Taylor
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Hmmmm.....I'll have to check into the lemon oil is an intriguing idea. Thanks, Bill. [Smile]

--------------------
BlueDog Graphics
Wilson, NC

www.BlueDogUSA.com

Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.

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Tim Barrow
Deceased


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thanks for the lemon oil tip Bill,...I'll have to try that here,...Oh yea,...I don't profess to be any kind of expert here on gilding,... just passing on knowledge I know works and have used in the past for problems like this,..,.

edited to add,...try letterhead supply they are a vendor here Glenn,..if they don't have it most any potter will have some as it's only very fine powdered clay for making pottery,....

[ August 27, 2010, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]

--------------------
fly low...timi/NC is,
Tim Barrow
Barrow Art Signs
Winston-Salem,NC

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Rick Sacks
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I usually buy koalin at the pharmacy.
You'll need to ask the pharmacist for it

--------------------
The SignShop
Mendocino, California

http://www.mendosign.com

Making the simple complicated is commonplace;
making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus

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Len Mort
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I agree with Timmy and Rick Glawson 100%.

Kaolin is much better, will not leave a ragged edge. Precleaner such as prepsol works fantastic for the superfluous gold removal.

By the way BonAmi is great for cleaning glass gilding but will scratch a finished panel. Be careful.

--------------------
Len Mort
Signmaker1.com
11 Juniper Drive
Millbury, MA
508-865-2382
"A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957)

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stein Saether
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I prefer to buff the whole background, then the gold wont stick where it schouldnt

--------------------
Stein Saether
GullSkilt AS
Trondheim

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Glenn Taylor
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Thanks Len. I was wondering about the BonAmi.

--------------------
BlueDog Graphics
Wilson, NC

www.BlueDogUSA.com

Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.

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Bill Lynch
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Does anyone else use an egg white size(egg white mixed with water, brush on let dry, size, gild, wash with water and soft cloth or cotton)? Works great, I think I got it from the old Gold Leaf Techniques book.

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Bill Lynch
Century Sign
Hamden, CT
centurysign@snet.net

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Jillbeans
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I am a lousy gilder.
But the stuff I get outside the design always has the brightest shine.
Ugh.
I use a Q-Tip dabbed in Rapid Remover to remove the fubars. Be careful not to get any on the gold.
Then a Q-Tip dipped in alcohol or Windex to remove the Rapid Remover.
Love....Jill

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Bob Rochon
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Bill,

I use to use the egg white almost exclusively myself, but Like Bill Riedel states for some reason there is always some gold sticking to the surface. The Kaolin gives me more consistant resluts.

Also like Jill I used to use Rapid Remover, but if you get a stubborn one, for me it would dull the finish. I probably rub too hard.

[ August 27, 2010, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]

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Bob Rochon
Creative Signworks
Millbury, MA
508-865-7330

"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you."

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Graham Parsons
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Where do you get the kaolin?

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Graham Parsons
Signs 'n Such Ltd
Swift Current
Saskatchewan
Canada.
www.signsnsuch.com

"Saskatchewan - hard to pronounce, easy to draw"

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Len Mort
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Beauty supply houses as it's used in making cosmetics.
Google search will turn up many suppliers and if I remember there are many in Canada.

--------------------
Len Mort
Signmaker1.com
11 Juniper Drive
Millbury, MA
508-865-2382
"A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957)

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Pat Welter
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Used egg whites but not good results (maybe to many variable was the egg fresh etc.), and have been using Kaolin ever since and it works great. Bill I'll have to try the lemon oil, I do use baby oil on a Qtip then clean up the oil spots as usual but some can be pretty subborn.

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Pat Welter
Masterhand Signs and Designs
Unity, Saskatchewan.Canada

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Dave Sherby
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Our beloved Letterhead Merchant "Letterhead Sign Supply" carries Shadow Kaolin. $7.50 per container. Go to the product list, click gilding, then click on page 4.

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Dave Sherby
"Sandman"
SherWood Sign & Graphic Design
Crystal Falls, MI 49920
906-875-6201
sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net

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Ian Stewart-Koster
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On a one-off job, rather than say an honour board, I somnetimes do what Stein suggested, and fine-sand the whole surface with say 800 grit wet-or-dry paper, then do the gilding, then clear of=ver the whole job when the gild is dry.

Stray gold seldom sticks to a finely dulled surface, only the high glossy ones.

Whiting is what I've used, bought by the bag from many hardware stores- same as talc powder, but yes, kaolin is much finer.

--------------------
"Stewey" on chat

"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull

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stein Saether
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But then in my opinion gold do look a lot better on a matte surface [Cool]

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Stein Saether
GullSkilt AS
Trondheim

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DianeBalch
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Nose grease works well for getting those flakes off. The days
I gild, I don't wash my face. to get rid of those flecks I wipe my finger on my nose and thn on the unwanted spots and rub a little. When all done
I use lemon oil. or old English polish and shine up the sign.

Diane

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Balch Signs
1045 Raymond Rd
Malta, NY 12020
518 885-9899
signs@balchsigns.com
http://www.balchsigns.com

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Rich Stebbing
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I have used a White Pounce bag tapped lightly over entire ares with success.
Bon Ami for "flecks"

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Rich Stebbing
RichSigns
Rohnert Park CA
707-795-5588

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Gerald Barlow
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Kaolin is available at any ceramics supply house. Brand will be different areas of the us.

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Gerald Barlow
Artworx
Turlock, CA

95380
artworx@bigvalley.net

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Doug Bernhardt
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Hey Glenn, As I see it the problem is getting off the stubborn stuff at the end and as you are screenin the gold the various "Barriers" might be a problem. My process for the painted gold signs goes something like....letter everything in 1-shot to an all but leaf finish. Clear with acrylic top coats and that's it. I have several...BUT....when leaf is still sticking and scotch or masking tape isn't working I have a little jar of a life saver called "Alumina Polish"(am pretty sure) which I daub on q tip and problem solved. In Canada I get it from Canadian Signcrafers. Of course the polish is at work and I'm not right now so can't be more help....BUT results guaranteed.

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Doug Bernhardt
Bernhardt Signs
Ottawa Ont.

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