posted
How do you handle things when you need to leave and do an install, pick up supplies, etc.? Do you leave a sign on the door stating you will be back at???
I am thinking of buying a shop on a busy street near me and leaving my house. Problem is flexibility. Is it a bad idea to have a storefront that is only open until around 1:30 in the afternoon?
I have to leave at that time to pick my daughter up from school everyday. We then go home for a short while so she can eat and work on homework and then we drive 30 mintues to swim practice. Basically my day is done at 1:30 everyday.
Working at home I can get some things done if needed between school pick up and practice time. However, I've barely made any money the last few months and it's looking rough around here. I could use the exposure and walk in traffic to make it through these tough times.
I would not be able to afford paying someone to sit in the storefront while I am not there. At least not at the present time.
I am also curious as to what type of things I need to look for before buying a business. I asked them to show me their taxes and business statements. What things in particular should I be concerned about?
I have more equipment than they have so it would actually work in my favor to be able to use my printer/laminator more often. They currently buy all prints from me. The only reason he is offering this to me is because he is moving to Washington State. He already sold his house and wants to sell the biz.
OK, enough for now. Any info. is greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
[ January 13, 2010, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: Amy Brown ]
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Is there any chance that you could find another business to share the space and be there in the afternoons?
I honestly feel that as long as your number one priority is family (nothing wrong with that!) that this is likely not going to work. It seems like 1 person shops have to put in really long hours in order to get it all done and at least in your home you can slip in a job in the evenings without having to leave the premisis. There will also be the added overhead to worry about.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Wellllll, Don't take what I do as gospel but currently with my new location I just put a "be back at..." sign on the door. I am romancing the idea of a part time "counter" person but the numbers have to be there first. I have had one comment " nice place but you're never here, but that was a good customer that gives me a hard time even if I was
Good luck Amy, I love having the business seperated from home. And most people will understand if you have to leave to pick up your daughter. One thing to remember we are a custom manufacturer not Walmart or Target.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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The one good thing is that he is a family person as well and I have actually gone by there many times when he was out on installs or even gone all day. His customers are already used to it!!
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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upon hearing of horror stories of other storefronts and experiencing this with ex GF owning a store I wouldnt do it. If you are even having thoughts this early in game why take a chance?
you got overhead, fire inspections, price shoppers, time wasters, solicitors, AND the joy of paying reant, utilities and other costs. I would stay small just my 2 cents.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
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A little bit different scenario but I ran a one person sign shop for ten years. This was pre-computer days. I found it maddening most times. I did work both at the shop and on site. Scheduling was a nightmare almost impossible at times. I never allowed for Murphy It always seemed to go like this. You have a truck scheduled to arrive at the shop at 9:30. You have a meeting with an important client set up at 3:00..............................the truck doesn't show up until 12:30
For numerous reasons I closed the shop down almost twenty years ago and I've never regretted it.
Would the walk in traffic make up the difference in overhead??? When things get tough, shop rent is a beotch.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
I am going through a similar situation. I have moved from the Old Church that I used to live in out in the country, and have moved into a town of about 18,000 population. I wanted a place that I could live in and have a storefront. I found the right place but had to go through a 6 month delay due a zoning glitch. It will be one person shop with no employees. I know that I will need time to do deliverys, grab supplies etc. I also want to set up a time where I can work on the CNC machine without having to worry about phones or walk-in traffic. I have played with the idea of setting my office hours to start at noon and run until 6:00 pm. The sign out front will say that before those hours I will also be open by appointment. This will allow those customers who HAVE to be there early not feel like there are being left out and will go on to the next sign shop. Getting out in the community to networking is also important. Even going down to the local coffee shop can generate business. I told a friend of mine in the sign business to make a removeable sign that stated "Having lunch at one of our local fine eating establishmets. Why not do the same and drop back later". You could adjust your time to pick up the kids at the same time each day and post a sign stating, "Out delivering another AMBRO Design fine sign".
Here is a picture of my new place, before a much needed facelift coming this spring. All it needs is a great wall mural in that black area. Maybe, Mark Yearwood , the Diaz's, Sonny Franks or Proffessor Wiggly Line might have an design idea that would work.
-------------------- Sandy "Monk" Baird Windwalker Sign Studio Port Colborne, Ontario L3K 4H9 Posts: 442 | From: Port Colborne, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2004
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I've been running my multi-national conglomerate for over 8 years (insert sarcasm) now with me as President and Janitor. Just be upfront with your public...I have a graphic on my front door that says, if we are out, please call me at.....
I have had little to no complaints. If a customer asks to stop in I just tell them to give a call ahead of time to make sure I am in. I try to be here mostly between 9 and 2:30 then the kiddos and school and such happen.
The key to this working is I have my hardline shop phone 'bounce' to my cell phone which I have with me ALL the time. When they call the local number, it rings to my cell. It's called busy line transfer in these parts. Works like a charm.
I quit my last full0time graphic gig the day before my daughter was born and have been running shop like this ever since. People seem to take you more seriously (ONLY MY EXPERIENCE) if you have a shop or storefront. I ran it out of my house for a year before I opened up shop. Night and day. Leave your work at work, don't bring it home.
I say, just make sure people know to call you if you aren't there...that way they aren't greeted with a locked door with no means or direction to contact you. I am usually within 10 minutes of the shop so can meet them there if they are waiting. My cheap .02.
Scott
-------------------- Scott Eckland Chelsea Signs web: chelseasigns.com email: scott@chelseasigns.com 734.475.9704 Posts: 198 | From: Michigan | Registered: Jun 2002
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No retail location means no retail headaches! The insurance, extra help needed to man the place when you are gone, the rent factor, the overhead in general.... Been there and did it. Love not wearing that ball and chain any more. Maybe get the shop in a B location, off the beaten path and post no hours or retail pitch. "By appoinment only" A cell phone is a beautiful thing if you can remember to answer it and not hang your clients in voice mail.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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#1 thing to look for in buying a business is profitability. If it is profitable, then generally the buyers are already working there and you never hear about it being for sale. If it is just because someone is getting ready to retire...probably a tricky move gaining their client's trust. A buy in deal might be best, if you can find someone who has a going enterprise and needs the cash infusion to genuinely enhance the productivity. It is a very dangerous move taking on a partner who has been down the road ahead of you. Trust your instincts and ask alot of questions.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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I think you need to take a good look at their books and their customer base first. Do they have any big contracts or customers that you will take over? Is most of their business walk in traffic? If you take over the shop and a large percentage of their business is walk ins, you will probably gain a lot of that business, but can you handle it by yourself?
You need to weigh the added expenses of insurance, rent, utilities, vs. what you might get from their customer base. I don't know what your competition is like, but there are no guarantees that their customers will stay with you when you take over. Many will, some may not.
Would the previous owner be willing to work with you for a while so customers get used to the idea of you taking over?
As far as being away, I've seen way more shops that are closed up at various times of the day than I've seen that are open 8 to 5, rain or shine. You just need, as others have said, an easy way for people to contact you when you are out like cell phone. I saw one shop that had a weatherproof box with pens and paper for customers to leave a note. But with almost everyone having a cell phone now a days, I don't see a problem. I also think that shortened hours like noon to 6:00 or 8:00 am to 2:00 pm is a fine idea.
I prefer having my shop out of the house. My wife doesn't miss the days of One Shot fumes wafting through the house, or the noise of my machinery. And I agree with those that believe a separate building looks more professional whether your house is on the same property or not.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5397 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Many times, especially with out of town jobs, I've done installs after hours. A few times, I left one of the kids or my wife at the store. That worked out for us because the kids were all homeschooled. With larger, more time consuming installs, I left a sign on the door. But the majority of jobs are vehicles or "cash and carry" signs.
We tried working out of home for awhile and aquired quite a few customers through word of mouth but, once we opened our storefront by a busy highway and put our sign by the road, it was whole new ballgame. We now have lots of friends and repeat customers we never would have met. And, I like having more privacy at my home. But only you know what your particular situation is. Good luck!
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Well, this is whats running through my mind reading Amy's post....
1) Amy wants more more work. More work = more money. But to do it, she feels its necessary to risk what money she has in order to move to a storefront / buy existing business.
From a business POV, that's not a good idea. Its like buying equipment in the hopes of attracting more business instead of buying equipment to do the work load you already have.
To me, you move to a storefront when the amount of business you have exceeds your current locations's capacity to service the clients properly. Sure there are other legitimate reasons, but for brevity's sake I won't go into them.
2) Amy lacks sufficient time to commit to the storefront. IMHO, she's talking about making a financial commitment to what will essentially will be a part-time job. I don't see any logic in that.
3) Amy is also talking about buying an existing business. Unless she's independently wealthy, she will take on a rather sizable debt in return for someone's used equipment and customer list for the sake of having a part-time job in a building with traffic exposure.
4) Then there are the numbers. Assuming Amy can only work from 8:30am to 1:30pm, she will have only 25 hours per week for which to generate a sufficient income to pay for rent, utilities, taxes, insurance, and bank loans. To satisfy that "nut", how much will her hourly rate have to be keeping in mind the walk-in traffic that comes in wanting to spend a half-hour about a $25 license plate? According to a SignCraft article several years ago, if in a 40 hour work week you were able to spend half of it in production, you were doing pretty darn good. So, is Amy going to be able to service her obligations on 12.5 hours of production per week? How many weekends is she going to be willing to sacrifice for that debt?
Amy, I'm not trying to talk you out of your dreams. I just don't want to see that dream turn into a nightmare because some things weren't thought completely through.
Debt is not something to take lightly. Trust me. I know.
.
[ January 12, 2010, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
Hiya Amy, Everyone has brought up a lot of good points.
So, are you buying the business and property or just taking over a lease? If it's a lease and/or you're just buying the business name, I would pass on the deal. If you're buying the property, that would be a different story and require a lot more homework.
The only other things I have to add, assuming you're buying the property would be to build your team - banker, attorney, insurance agent, etc and develop a business plan to see if it could work.
Also have your CPA review the books of the business and offer his advice before you make any commitment.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I would be wary about assuming that your business will increase enough to pay the multitude of new expenses. You will have to do a lot more work to break even, are you prepared to do that?
-------------------- Joy Kjer Art On Display Signs 4001 Randolph St Lincoln, NE
"My life has a superb cast, but I can't figure out the plot." Posts: 445 | From: 4001 Randolph St. Lincoln, NE | Registered: Jun 2002
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Amy, Is there an SBA office (Small Business Administration) near you? I have found them to be extremely helpful in business situations. There are a lot of free or low cost resources available to help you make these types of decisions. They also have retired business people who volunteer to help small businesses. We have a resource center in Jacksonville. It might be worth a trip up for you.
-------------------- Jean Shimp Shimp Sign & Design Co. Jacksonville Beach, Fl Posts: 1266 | From: Jacksonville Beach, Fl. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Oh, Jean's comment on SCORE reminded me of another organization you may also want to check out your local Small Business Development Center (SBDC)...
There may be many other valuable sources available at the state, county and local level too. You could and should take advantage of what's available.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Amy: I just shut down my 30+ year shop and moved home. I have always used call forwarding to my cell. That way I'm always available. I had a sign on the door that told people I was out and to call the shop number. Didn't see that mentioned. Jer/Artworx
-------------------- Gerald Barlow Artworx Turlock, CA
95380 artworx@bigvalley.net Posts: 198 | From: Turlock, CA 95380, USA | Registered: Dec 2002
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Amy, Been there done that. I bought a commercialy zoned house on a main street. Got a SBA loan. I predicted 10% increase in business due to walk ins. I was right! But most walk ins are trying to sell YOU something! HA! The #1 reason a business fails is because they are not there when customer show up! This is a fact! Most walk ins want something quick like vinyl. Paying someone to be there could just about break even. Good luck.....keep us posted.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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...Amy, maybe you could find a partner to go in with. Some one who brings skills you may not specialize in, and money to the table. Then someone 'could' be there for the quickie vinyl traffic. And having someone who is financially 'committed' around, you would not have to worry about an hourly employee sketching out on ya.
posted
Find a Graphic Designer wanting to do the same thing (get out of home) and "rent" from you at a discounted rate. Graphic Designers don't need much space - just a desk for the computer. Only proviso on the discounted rent is that they must be there all the time and answer any basic sign questions for you.
Cheers - Gregg
-------------------- Gregg Sydney Signworks (02) 9837 1198 Schofields NSW Australia Posts: 368 | From: Schofields | Registered: May 2007
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I share a space with my friend who owns a tax prep business. Her busy season is my slow season, and my busy season is her slow time. But the perk is having a friend there to greet customers, take messages, accept shipments, etc. when I am out on a job or a family matter. We share a fax number, internet, copier/printers, etc. and split the rent by sq. ft. We are not "up town" as she needs the parking, and that works for me with semis. I actually have quite a bit of walk in traffic, either to discuss jobs or to pick up orders. And please don't forget safety, it's a bonus to have business neighbors to look out for you. Being uptown is not always a plus as two sign shops in the downtown area have both closed in the last year. Hope to not ever "have" to move home, I enjoy having someone to help flip boards, or bounce ideas off of, and I think the isolation would make me bonkers. Oh yeah - I bring my "girls" (dogs) to work with me every day. Hey..dog hair is no extra charge. And those salesmen...they don't come too far into the shop! Good luck to you.
-------------------- Carol Kaufmann Watseka Sign 1801 N State Rt 1 Watseka, IL 60970 Posts: 33 | From: Watseka, IL | Registered: Jan 2002
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It always seemed to go like this. You have a truck scheduled to arrive at the shop at 9:30. You have a meeting with an important client set up at 3:00..............................the truck doesn't show up until 12:30 ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
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