posted
how much should I charge for a 4x8x1/2" sign. MDO painted dark green one side & two sided. theres a simple logo some directions and phone numbers and a two color border around the sign. This is for a big construction company . I know what I usually charge but I dont feel like its enough this time. there may be multiple signs with the same info. Its a site sign. Just need a guesstimate. I wont hold you to it. thanks.
posted
round here, right now? i would do it on 1/2" coroplast for $180.00 no install
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
$350 to $400 about a hundred and twenty miles west of where you are,...not installed, add another hundred for 2 painted and dadoed posts and set in sacrete in 2' of red clay.
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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In my neck of the woods, how much to charge can vary greatly depending on how you produce the job.
Are you handlettering, cutting vinyl or doing a digital print.
Low price on a project doesn't have to mean low profits. A sheet of C-bond cost me $60 and a 4x8 digital print on intermediate vinyl with laminate cost me $3 a square foot. Materials cost is $156 plus your time, overhead and profit. If you use MDO, the price will be higher because even though its the same price as C-Bond, you have to add the cost of priming and coating.
posted
$540.00 for a 4x8 digital print??!!! for a builder?. damn I need to move to TX!!! what material are you placing those prints on raymond?
we do everything on coroplast. i dont use MDO i dont like it, IF they want solid I will use PVC but dont like to. Im not saying Im right or wrong or anyone else is, we all use what we use and thats that.
full color digital print on coro no install i would get about $280.00. and most of the time they go elsewhere, which is FINE! there is a company north of us that prints directly on substrates and I dont like the look of the prints. they are very pale and low res, doesnt look good to me.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
Come on over Bruce - there are sign shops going out of business right and left here in Texas.
Most of the time those prints are on .5" MDO but sometimes Laminators LusterBoard.
We probably have shops here doing the same thing for the same price that Bruce mentioned. Actually, I have very little idea what other folks in our area are charging. I just know what it costs the client for us to do it.
Most of the area builders go to them. Some come to use. It seems to all work out in the end.
This morning we recieved a job for vinyl lettering on a glass door 50 miles away. We gave them a price last week but suggested that they use someone local since our charge had to include driving up and down the road.
They called back and said that they had experienced some of the local shops and couldn't trust them - they were willing to pay us extra to do the job.
We have very little work right now and have missed several large project lately. Maybe tomorrow I'll give it away, but not today.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I'd charge $400 for a 4x8 MDO. Getting the logo artwork is often the most time consuming part of the job. A 4x8 MDO "For Sale" sign is $250-300.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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[ July 27, 2009, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: J & N Signs ]
-------------------- Mario G. Lafreniere (Fergie) J&N Signs Winter did show up! Posts: 1257 | From: Chapleau, Ontario | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
LOL @ pat....and so true! and I know who might be kicking those out at that charge
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
Dare I suggest a somewhat different business plan?
I haven't done a 4x8 for a builder or real-estate developer in a loooong time - why? They won't pay me enough!
That said, here's my recipe for $100 bills. I take leftover HDU to my local router guy; for $50 he will cut them into a bunch of )nice 7" x 10" ovals (I usually get 8 or 10 at a time; he doesn't care how many). I have a display for house signs in a friend's antique shop. On Saturdays I set up a table in front of her shop, on a sidewalk on a busy village street, and do demo carving, chat with people all day, and usually sell two or three of said ovals with carved house numbers. It takes 20 minutes max to carve three numbers. People LOVE to see their number carved right in front of them!
During the week, along with the regular commercial work, I paint and gild these ovals. Customer picks them up on he following Saturday. I charge $100 to $120 apiece (in advance), with about ten bux in expenses, you do the math.
Obviously I don't live on this, but as a supplement to regular work, I'll take it. And I don't spend my days worrying about how much the local toilet-flushers are charging to hump 4x8s to cheap, conniving, no-layalty-or-ethics real-estate chiselers. Like I said, they don't pay me enough.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
1/2" MDO your cost is near $70. i use the old sq ft pricing. $70 is the cost of your board, so are you painting it or are you buying it already painted??? makes a big diff. if its already painted, then ad $30-40 to price of board. NOW....32 sq ft X $10= $320 if you charge $5 sq ft=$160 + $100-110 for the board. depending on the vinyl used and or artwork add more. NOW.......IF YOU HAVE TO PRIME AND PAINT the board, you have to figure in the cost(youre time) and the cost of PAINT.......add to the price
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I go to Signcarfaft pricing guild. Since my overhead is $75/hr (this was based on the worksheet) I go to the blue column. 4 x 8's are $550 add $150 for two posts installed.
I just did two 4x4's for $300 dollars ea. Then again, this area is one of the most expensive areas in the US to live. I think it's cheap.
-------------------- Mike Duncan Lettercraft Signs Posts: 1328 | From: Centreville, VA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
It's not about what you charge, it's about who will pay you what you believe you are worth. If a potential customer doesn't wish to pay me what I think I'm worth, I don't do the work.
I've done RE/developer 4x8s, with the site map and all their silly extra copy and three phone numbers (why? Do they plan on not answering all of them?) The purpose of these things is to make $$ - more like $$$$$$$ - for the developer. Of COURSE the developer wants them cheap. I want to buy one of his homes for $500, too. Lemme know when that's gonna happen.
IMHO these type of signs should go for a MINIMUM of a grand - more if they are detailed and colorful and advertise a hundred-or-more-lot subdivision. The developer is paying a couple of hundred G's to the lawyers for the permits, the engineer, the site planner, the bribe to the local zoning board, etc. Developers make major coin on these projects - they don't work for free either - yet the sign that goes out front to advertise this place and attract buyers, we are supposed to sell them for a lousy coupla hundred bux? I DON'T F*CKING THINK SO!
What baffles me to no end is why, in this segment of the market, where real money is being made and spent, signguys treat these things like a larger version of a coroplast yard-sale sign. If developers and RE agents think we're a pack of shoeless nitwits, who can blame them? Hell, most of you go out and buy $20,000 digital printers just so we can make their signs - that advertise multi-million dollar properties - faster and cheaper than the next guy. And the entire industry, or most of it, goes right along with this idiocy. If a guy opening a dog-grooming place - who in a good year might net himself $30k - will pay me $1,800 for a four foot by four foot double-sided sign - nothing fancy about it - why in god's name would I do a 4x8 for a multi-millionaire developer for $350? More to the point, WHY THE HELL WOULD ANYONE?
P.S. This post was interrupted by the dog-grooming guy calling back. He's coming over tomorrow morning to pick up his signs and write me a check. Or, according to what in this industry is common practice, I could be out installing five 4x8s for developers and waiting 60 to 90 days for the same amount of money. Du-uh....
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
It's not about what you charge, it's about who will pay you what you believe you are worth. WELL SAID, we are all worth something, and the product of our talent and abilty is also worth something. now, in my mind, NOBODY CAN AFFORD ME)))))) the product they are requesting, also has a "fair market price". and this is dependant on YOUR AREA & THE BUYERS. so this being said, YOU CAN GET AS MUCH AS THE MARKET OR BUYER WILL BEAR. its sorta like boat lettering. i alway try to base MY PRICE for that, on the SIZE OF THE BOAT. fisherman got a 16' base boat, gets his lettering for say $100. guy with the 40' JERSEY, is $500, the guy with the 80' 3 flybridged, that has a 16' ft dingy landing craft on deck, well a $1000 for him is same as the $100 for the bass boat guy. comes down to that, if the vuyer sees it as a fair price, then whatever you charge is good. now in the REAL WORLD, with everybody and their brother havin a vinyl cutter(its that way here) no talent so called "business owners" WHO buys a printer and decides to sell, sell, sell, just to keep the printheads wet...........is the new problem. got em here doin ADVERTISED to the public, $2-3 a sq ft ANYTHING SIGNS.......... the buyers are now SHOPPERS.........who in this economy... WANT TO PAY THE LEAST POSSIBLE. i had a lady call me up one day, and asked if i PRICE MATCHED my competitors. i asked her what she was lookin to get done... SHES SAYS: oh i need 3-4 of those little signs you see on the roadside, one side lettered, and i called a place that siad he could do em for $10 each!!! CAN YOU DO EM CHEAPER??? i hung up on her..................
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
You mean you couldn't??? Hell, you're the marketing genius who bragged about making good money selling 4x4 ballfield fence ads for $30! C'mon, big guy! Easy money!
No offense, but I don't care WHERE you live - I wouldn't let my dog come out and p*ss on your tire for that. There's markets and competition and all that, and then there's self-respect. Stay retired, OP; not working for a living suits you better than anything you've ever tried.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Old Paint is trying to be helpful here. . .and has some good points. I have as much self respect as anyone out there, but when it comes to paying the bills, staying current on my mortgage & feeding my 3 girls, well, thats where I earn MY respect. . .not in a ****ing contest. My nearest major market is Memphis, TN., one of the biggest sign shops there just laid off 12 people, 3 local shops here I know of have shut their doors in the last 3 months. I am NOT afraid to match a competitors price, within reason, if it means the difference between putting hot dogs on the table or not.
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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posted
thanks carl, like i said DEPENDS ON YOUR AREA... now where cam is, is mostly people with a lot of money, i gather. was the same for the guy who did all the signs for SANABELL ISLAND, FL. cost was no object. as for cams opinion of me, i wouldn't expect anything less................ since he is the greatest person since god.
[ July 31, 2009, 02:10 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
As much as I like to believe there should be no difference in pricing because of where you are, it's a fact of life. Real estate prices vary widely & so will everything else. Cam is right ... the cost of production has absolutely no bearing on what value your customer will get from a sign. However, it's also really hard to sell a $10K sign to someone who paid more for their pickup than they did for their home. Yes, there are still plenty of places in North America where you can buy a comfortable home with enough land for a nice garden etc. for well under 100k. You may have to drive 20 miles to buy a bottle of single malt or get a prescription filled, but so be it. Developers are no different than any of us ..... if they shop for the lowest price on a sign, that's no different than us going to 6 car dealers to compare prices. Most of us haven't done a great job at convincing the public that nice signs are an investment in your business, not an expense. There should be prestige attached to having a nice sign.... people who wouldn't be caught dead with anything less than a $60k vehicle in the driveway seem quite content to have absolute crap for signage. Collectively, we need to change that way of thinking.
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 472 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
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posted
screw TX i need to move where cam is, i could do a 4x8 a week and clean up as long as i can stay living down here in podunk ass alabama.
unfortunately we cant treat developers that way, at least for now, there is no developing going on down here, LOL. I think comparing a house to sign is a good bit different also. several worlds apart but to each his own.
and rogers quote "There should be prestige attached to having a nice sign.... people who wouldn't be caught dead with anything less than a $60k vehicle in the driveway seem quite content to have absolute crap for signage"
HOW TRUE, same goes for people throwing up a $500k building and having crap for signage. and as far as changing or educating....theres no hope in that. Signage IMO is one of the best things you can do for a building, others dont see that nor do they care
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
You are missing the point, Bruce. Developers here aren't any different from anywhere else - they want a 4x8 for $300 or less, to advertise a subdivision that will generate millions in profits. Other shops here are perfectly willing to scramble to outdo each other, buying more and more expensive equipment in order to sell signs cheaper and cheaper. I decided a long time ago that this was a fool's game, and chose not to play anymore.
Perhaps in Alabama this approach still works - you are right, it's about the area you are in. The cost of living is a lot higher here, so I can't afford to pay my bills on what I would make in a competition to sell $300 4x8s, knowing full well the customer will find some someone to make them for $250. So I concentrate on a different market altogether.
My original comments on this subject were aimed at the idea that if you don't like the prices you can get selling 4x8s to developers, find something else to sell to someone who WILL pay for and appreciate your work.
Oh, and one other thing - it's not the developers who grind these prices down to nothing. The last time a developer asked me about a 4x8 for a subdivision, I asked him what his budget was. He said he was hoping to get it done for no more than a thousand dollars... That's what he thought it was worth, until he asked for a price at another shop, and instead of asking what he was willing to pay, they said $250. The result? Well, next time he needs a 4x8, you think he's going to budget a grand for it? Of course not, because the SIGN INDUSTRY - not him - decided that sign was only worth $250. Whose fault is that? Not his; he had $1000 on the table and $750 of it ended up back in his pocket. Not only that, the next time around he's saying to himself, "if that guy sold me this for $250, I'll bet someone else can beat that."
This is the kind of self-defeating idiocy I want no part of. And if that makes me the lone voice crying in the wilderness, so be it.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
and me, I'll just lay a double line mixed to match down the side of a repaired wreck for a body shop at $50. per panel with a 3 panel minimum and walk away 20 minutes later and we'll both be smiling
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
quote: Oh, and one other thing - it's not the developers who grind these prices down to nothing. The last time a developer asked me about a 4x8 for a subdivision, I asked him what his budget was. He said he was hoping to get it done for no more than a thousand dollars... That's what he thought it was worth, until he asked for a price at another shop, and instead of asking what he was willing to pay, they said $250. The result? Well, next time he needs a 4x8, you think he's going to budget a grand for it? Of course not, because the SIGN INDUSTRY - not him - decided that sign was only worth $250. Whose fault is that? Not his; he had $1000 on the table and $750 of it ended up back in his pocket. Not only that, the next time around he's saying to himself, "if that guy sold me this for $250, I'll bet someone else can beat that."
Exactly. I can't say this enough. As an industry, we are our own worst enemy.
I've pretty much done the same as Cam. I'm not interested in fighting my competition to see who can be the cheapest.
I just sold a $4000 project yesterday to a Veterinarian. He had already got a bid and design from another shop for $1500. I asked if his image as a professional was only worth $1500 to him. He came back and said that he originally had a budget of $4000. So, I came back with a $4000 design. 40% of it will end up being pure net profit.
If you don't ask for it, you won't get it. And when you do ask, know what you're asking.
posted
Bruce, the only point in comparing a house to a sign was that all things are relative. The cost of things in any area seems to be tied somewhat to the value of real estate, & not just because of the cost of living. Signage would be no exception. Cam & Glen are "bang on" ....... you can't fight your way to the bottom & expect to eat well.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
Oh Cam...tellin' like it is...Oh so entertaining. I've always tried to watch my internet ettiquette when writing on these forums. But I sure love it here at Letterville when the s**t starts flyin'. Makes me feel like a Letterhead Meet, where the gloves come off and the beer comes out and the fun begins with the real conversations of life in the trenches. Yaeh! That's what I'm talkin' about! I do agree with Cam, although I probably would have said it in a way as to not dismantle the idea that other people might have a different view or location, location, location. I really liked Glenn's comment about asking a potential client if that's all he thought his business was woth. Good one Glenn...gotta remember that one. When someone is letting their fingers do the walking and the first hing out of their mouth is "how much"...do we hang up on them or do we use this time to be a super sales person and tell them what we are about and why we wouldn't charge that kind of "price" for all the tea in China. Telling them what we do vs. what those low-ball rotten apples are "charging". If they hang up on us...then we know we wouldn't want their business anyway. If we get a job of merit from a little patience and educating time spent, then we have done our job and won over another convert to the Force...and it is still with us. I have learned that educating the public is a constant. How we choose to do this is entirely up to us. Does it work to hang up on them? Or is it worth a little of our time to let them know the difference between us and the HACKS out there. Pride in ownership shows in every way that you put yourselves out there. Don't get complacent in your attitude ad you will always be the winner....whether you get the job or not...you win. Because there is always more work out there, sometimes you just have to be more creative than the other person in the ways that you find it.
-------------------- Judy Grossman JG Signs & Designs 226 W. Jackson St. Sonora, CA 95370 Posts: 207 | From: Sonora, CA, USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
What an enlivening subject after all these years! the elusive 4x8...a basic hand-painted MDO at our shop jumped from $300.00 to between $575.00 and $625.00 in two years. We get it simply from the integrity of the craft, product knowledge, free consultation and the basic trust that we know what we are doing. They pick it up and Installation is extra. Vinyl and digital hasn't really changed the fact that you are a professional and are expected to "get it right" the first time, no matter what is being used. your knowledge and expertise is what the customer is paying for, and that is not negotiable. All the other stuff is, depending on how much you want to mark it up, and how good your customer is to your business. Way to go, Cam. Keep up the good work!! Next one's on me.
-------------------- David C. Petri Flying Peach Custom Paint Green Bay, WI 54302 cell 920-246-7821 Posts: 79 | From: Green Bay, WI | Registered: Jun 2006
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Hell, you're the marketing genius who bragged about making good money selling 4x4 ballfield fence ads for $30! 
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