posted
I sent this message, to the original contact on June 6:
> XXXX, > We got the file opened. Will this be all you want included on the sign? > Do you want a custom shape or a rectangle? > What size would you like? The planning and zoning dept. has size limits > based on factors such as zone designation, building frontage, sign > placement etc.If this sign is to be displayed in the city of Marianna, > it will require both a sign permit and a building permit. Do you want > us to pull the permits? We charge $250 to pull the permits in the city > of Marianna. > We begin designing the proof(s) upon receipt of either a > material/production deposit or design deposit. Should you only want > design work done, the lesser design deposit would cover design, file > conversions, and emailing proofs to the client and is credited to the > client in the event of a sign order. The material deposit covers 50% of > the entire sign production. After determining size, shape and > installation requirements of the sign, we will send over a quote. > Please call if you have any questions. > Thanks > Wayne Webb > webbsignstudio.com > 850.638.9329
His reply on June 6:
I am forwarding this info to XXXX XXXXX the office manager for the Marianna office. He will get in touch with you to work out all these details.
Thanks,
XXXX XXXX IT/CAD Manager Terra-Com Environmental Consulting, Inc.
The guy finally calls on June 20 and I sent the folowing email over to him about an hour later:
XXXX, I think the "Chipola Property" sign is 21" x 61.75" It is made of urethane which is $90.50/sq.ft. so the panel would be $814.50 If you want it mounted so the screws don't show, we install a hidden mounting plate with steel studs. Holes are drilled in the block to receive the studs, silicone is injected and the studs are pushed into the holes. The mounting plate is $171. Total price for this size panel with the mounting plate, delivery and installation is $1154 plus $250 permit procurement fee. I don't know exactly how much the actual permits will be but the city fee is around $30 and the buiding permit is around $20 Most everything is by the square foot, so you can change the size and change the price of the sign. Below is the pricing spreadsheet/quote. Thanks Wayne
He then wants me to come over there (about thirty miles) and look at the wall where the sign will be installed. I have to go over there to install another sign, so we set up an appointment for 9AM because he wants to meet me there. The guy is 30 minutes late. I'm about to leave when he shows up. Before we part company, he wants to know how long it will take to do the sign. I tell him about 30 days. He then informs me that they want the sign by the 23rd of July.....but he can't give me a deposit until after July 2....and no go ahead has been given to even pull permits. I corresponded with these folks without delay on June 6...plenty of time to get a sign done by July 23rd.
I just had another client, who wanted to pull her own permits to save money. I mean...this lady is the president of a company with locations in two states and several cities. I told her UP FRONT that I would need about a month to do and they probably wouldn't let her pull the permits.. FIVE WEEKS later, she calls me, to inform me that she almost has all of the permit work done, (using my drawings) but needs me to fill out a form, provide a license#, and go by and pick up the permit because they won't let her. There are now 25 days left before her "grand opening" and she has blown 5 WEEKS on the permits. Then she tells me that if I can't get her sign done on time, she will go to sometone else. I had already spent too much time worrying with this lady so I buckled down, and got it done on time. But then I had to hound her to get a check for the balance...it finally arrived today...two weeks after installation.
So, what do you do about clients who drag their feet, cause delays and then look at you like it's your fault?
[ June 30, 2008, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I tell them upfront what my charge is and how long it will take, and that "rush charges will apply" if they don't give me enough time.
then, when they drag their heels, I tell them what the rush charges are going to be (before beginning my work.)
i don't begin any work until I get the deposit. (i tell them that at the beginning.)
invoice early and often.
what are they going to do - go looking for another sign shop, when they only have 3 weeks left? No, they're going to either pony up the Rush charge, or they're going to discover that its ok to get the signs later than they wanted.
-------------------- :: Scooter Marriner :: :: Coyote Signs :: :: Oakland, CA :: :: still a beginner :: :: Posts: 1356 | From: Oakland (and San Francisco) | Registered: Mar 2001
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I've been running into more and more situations like the one you described.
A few weeks ago, I finally sat down and typed up a FAQ sheet to hand to customers. It explains in detail procedures, expectations, fees and so on.
When the client signs the workorder, I also hand them a copy of the FAQ sheet and have them to sign a second one which I keep with the workorder. That way, if they ever claim that I didn't tell them something I can show them the FAQ sheet that they signed.
Just this past week, it saved me a $200 headache with a client on a $5k project.
posted
I will have to agree. Im running into more and more of that also...they act like they are on crack, need it tommorow, blah, blah, blah, blah blah, blah but the whole time dragging their ass on THEIR duties. I drop them. If you show NO interest, Im not interested.
if your in a hurry and you cant pay me up front, Your NOT in that much of a hurry are you? i am so sick and damn tired of these people doing this. like the situation with wayne above, this guy had plenty of time to make these arrangments and didnt, and you still waited 30 mintues I would have left after 10. your not going to miss anything but a hyper ass customer that will make your blood pressure go up.
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
Here are some of the standard disclaimers I put on most of my invoices now. I have them saved under retail items in EstiMate and add them as necessary to fit the project.
1) This proposal is based on information available at time of submission and the total cost is subject to change, higher or lower, based on final review and/or execution of project. Additional costs may include, but are not limited to, change orders, additional labor, tool acquisition or material charges necessary to complete the project due to unforeseen obstacles; project delays caused by the client or third party, additional trip charges, rush charges or other expenses outside the original scope of the project.
2) A 50% retainer payment is required to start the order. Payment of balance is due upon completion of Project. Payments not received upon completion of project are subject to finance and/or collection charges. Minimum finance or collection charge of $25 dollars or 1.5% per month, compounded monthly, or a fraction there of (whichever is greater), will apply to all past due accounts. MINIMUM FINANCE/COLLECTION CHARGE - $25 RETURNED CHECK FEE - $25 ADDITIONAL FEES AND CHARGES FOR COLLECTION OF THIS DEBT, TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT ALLOWED BY LAW, MAY APPLY.
3) On Site Installation - Local installation that takes place during normal business hours. This assumes a relatively simple installation with no visible obstacles. Includes local travel up to 10 miles in one direction. Additional costs will be billed for unforseen obstacles, wait time and/or additional tools or supplies needed to complete project. These items will be addressed with Client when needed and will be added to final invoice.
4) All creative design remains the property of Checkers Custom Signs. Unless noted on this agreement, this design may not be used for other purposes, including, but is not limited to, business cards, letterheads, magazine, print and multi-media, t-shirts, web sites or any other use. Established corporate logos and artwork remain the property of their respective organizations. Any unauthorized of the copyright protected material may result in legal action and additional use fees.
5) Unless requested otherwise by the client, Checkers Custom Signs reserves the right to photograph and display the projects executed for this client in its portfolios, websites, galleries, design periodicals and other media or exhibits for promotional and educational purposes or for recognition of creative excellence or professional advancement, without compensation to the client.
Ya it's a bummer to have to go through this, but I've learned from the mistakes that myself and many others have made.
I'm sure that if you're using any type of estimating or accounting program to develop quotes/invoices, you can add similar text and cover your butt too.
One last tip, check with your CPA and/or attorney to make sure these are valid policies/claims for your state.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I just added this to my sign proposal sheets...
"Date of completion is determined at time of receipt of 50% deposit and clearance of all associated permits and/or permissions as required."
Short and to the point. If anything, it will make the customer ask questions. It's also a good time to point out that taking 3 weeks to come in with some $$$ means 3 weeks of delay.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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