posted
Hi everybody, We are having a bad problem with MAROON 1shot lettering enamel fading really fast! Every local sign we have done with this color is starting to embarrass us. We think it might be the thinner...??? We use regular paint thinner.. any suggestions from you awesome old-timers would be GREATLY appreciated!!! THANK YOU!!!
posted
I've had maroon "purple" out. I never thin 1-S with paint thinner. When I do thin, I use either regular turpentine or Chromatic Edge flow enhancer (when I can get it) I feel that using plain old paint thinner affects the glossiness of the 1-S. I also try to avoid using maroon or purple 1-Shot! (not Proper Purple) Love.....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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-------------------- Ryan Culbertson The Sign Shop at Quick Copies Greenwood, SC
Rock and Roll means well, but it can’t help tellin’ young boys lies. Mike Cooley - Drive By Truckers Posts: 453 | From: Greenwood, South Carolina | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Maroon has been fading for years and now is the time to mix your own starting with 1-Shot Kool Crimson which is a red ( 106L ) For flow I would suggest 1-Shot #6000 reducer which is basically a flow enhancer and until the good folks at Spraylat get their heads out of that dark space on their backsides, this is the product to use. Spraylat should be manufacturing Chromatics ChromaFlo which they also own but have decided not to manufacture. Strange people they are for using 1-Shot for lettering and the Chromatic line for Bulletin colors.
BTW, I never thin my paints.
Love..... Joe
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
posted
I'll second what Joey said. 6000 is a good reducer, however, it tends to clabber up before you use it up...poor shelf life. I've gone to adding Penetrol for flow, works great and I get to use the entire can.
Like Joey pointed out, One Shot maroon has been pure garbage for years. I quit using it about ten years ago. I goes to crap in less than a year and any complaints to One Shot fall on deaf ears. Anything that calls for maroon gets either HOK striping urethane, an automotive urethane or vinyl, whatever is the best for the situation.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
The thinner is not the complete problem...it's the paint, but I would never suggest using paint thinner to make enamels flow better because it changes the formula of the paint too drastically. Others have given you the best advice for dealing with One Shot paints.
That's why so many have switched to 100% acrylics. Of course, pin stripers cannot use water based paints, and since I'm not a striper I will have to leave that area up to to Joey and and the rest of the gang.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I only use Hi-Temp synthetic auto enamel reducer, along with a few drops of Penetrol per 1 oz. cup of paint. The brand of reducer doesn't seem to matter much, though I will say that I never liked the way One-Shot's 6000 handles.
Don't like thinner--weakens paint
Don't like turps---the smell.
Mix all to brushing consistency, pallette on edge of cup, add reducer as needed. Toss whatever is left, and don't put back in original paint can. It will turn the paint to Jell-o after a time.
Penetrol--punch a hole in the cap, and close it with a sheet metal screw. More accurate dispensing, and avoids the buildup on the cap threads. Penetrol makes real good glue when it comes to getting the cap off.
"Toss"---means dispose of properly---whatever that means these days.
One other thing---Maroon and several other colors are "two-coaters" going in---at least so I've found.
FWIW
bill preston
what is an old timer?
[ August 14, 2007, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Bill Preston ]
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
This only reason I mentioned #6000 reducer is because this is what is offered in the 1Shot line-up. This additive was 1-Shots comparison to Chromatics ChromaFlo yet not entirely as the ChromaFlo works a heck of a lot better by adding resins I believe which help with gloss retention.
I whole heartedly agree with Raymond when he says its the paint but basically theres nothing we can do about it.
As I see things differently than most I too agree and dis-agree wil Bill, thinners aren't good for paints especially 1-Shot, but than again ChromaFlo or even #6000 isn't your ordinary reducer or thinner but an additive like penetrol.
I think the wording used today is mickey mouse and causes problems to those who don't use common sense to begin with. Just the word reducer tells you it reduces the paint properties just as the word thinner says it thins out its properties which is the exact same thing. Both of these thins the paint and reduces its properties but only a flow enhancer can give your paint body while adding to its longevity. I truly believe that big companies use more diplomacy than knowledge of what is needed and all this crap while they are still learning the process.
If Tramp was here he would certainly agree with me.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
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WOW!!! Y'all are Awesome. We feel like such children when we come to Letterville!!! Thanks so very VERY much for sharing your knowledge and experience. Will put this new info to good use!!!!!
posted
well ya learn something every day no wonder I've been having problems with 1-shot when lettering and not when I pinstripe lol /..I to was about to change the thinners totaly cause of, but I'm not getting lots of work to notice much or experiment lol
In chat a couple of years ago there was a discussion about how to stop the fading of maroon. I was told to add a drop or 2 of 1Shot black and a drop of white. Also that the addition of 1Shot hardner would help a lot. Sooooo, that's what I do. So far so good. Would an additional coat of a UV clear help things????
The guy with only questions about paint.......and no answers...
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
FWIW, Joe Chips, I've got three "welcome to" a village signs that have now been out about 5 years---3 four by eights. Each has a panel that takes up about a third of each face done with maroon one shot bulletin color. Two coats rolled using foam rollers and feathered off with a foam brush. No reducers or any other additives, or added colors. Paint straight out of the can.
Even the one facing South still looks pretty darn good---so to answer your question----I don't have an answer.
bill preston
-------------------- Bill Preston Fly Creek, N.Y. USA Posts: 943 | From: Fly Creek, N.Y. USA | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Thinner to me was for dipping the brush into when it started to load up too much. The other time I might use thinner is if the paint was a little too fat from the can. Now on the other hand the batch of reducers, enhancers or what ever were only to use under alternate weather conditions regarding the temperature of a given surface. At times...if needed when lettering a cold window or galvanized billboards, I would pee in a can and mix in a little to the paint to keep the color from sliding off of the surface. Something to do with a acidic reaction.
Crazyjack
P.S. Learned that from Johnny Berg.
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Reds , Burgundy, purple enamel fade/chalk to quick. If you can get a crash repairer or paint your own backgrounds as this paint will last longer. Or as someone has mentioned lay vinyl on your substrate.
-------------------- Mark Stokes Mark Stokes Signs Mount Barker South Australia Posts: 388 | From: Mount Barker | Registered: Jan 2005
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As mentioned above by Joe a little black in the maroon helps. Large areas a black undercoat. at least when it fades the white background doesn't show thru.
PS: I always double coat Maroon and red regardless if they enamel or acrylic.
[ August 15, 2007, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: Jon Butterworth ]
posted
It's interesting no one's yet mentioned what we do- get a red oxide/burnt sienna/venetian red/ reddy brown tint, and use that for the first coat, and maroon for the second coat. I find that red oxide-coloured enamel is one of the most stable colours- rust doesn't oxidise, does it! If ther maroon fades, it'll fade to something similar that's stable.
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
I always had trouble peeing in the can. Love.....Jill PS I have heard that it works, though!
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Hey, no one even mentioned about using Gasoline for thinner.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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-------------------- Ryan Culbertson The Sign Shop at Quick Copies Greenwood, SC
Rock and Roll means well, but it can’t help tellin’ young boys lies. Mike Cooley - Drive By Truckers Posts: 453 | From: Greenwood, South Carolina | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
A ornery old house painter who was around while I was still cutting teeth used to quip how he'd spit a little chew in the enamel to make 'er slide.
Now that's a flow enhancer.
BTW -- thinner is what you put on your rag and tuck in your back pocket that gives you those nice raised welts on your posterior.
Reds are the worse fading colors for paint across the board on this planet, maroon being the worse. They break down from the ultra violet rays of the sun. It only stands to reason that the more paint that is in the film, the longer it will keep from fading. Thinning these colors hastens the process. Double and triple coating should be considered. UV inhibitors in clears will help, but alkyd paints such as lettering and bulletin colors are the worse. Acrylic resin paints such as in automotive acrylic urethanes are the best, and for brushing paints premium acrylic latex is the best and even they have limited longevity.
But the red in stained glass windows is permanent, that's why when I retire I'm going to take up this fascinating process. I'm starting to buy books. I love stained glass art.
That's it ... I figured it out. Just add glass to your maroon paint and have at it.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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