There is no defese agianst a madman who will not play by the rules. Unarmed people cannot stop someone who is determined to commit mayhem. It doesn't matter if he has a gun, sword or caveman's club, he has the advantage.
Unfortunately, now we will see the usual politicans on the news proposing more silly and useless laws.
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Well, let's look at Ted Bundy (accredited with 40 non-gun kills), John Wayne Gacy ( 33 non-gun kills) Jeffrey Dahmer, etc....they killed scores of people without firing a single shot....and their numbers would have been much larger had they not slipped up and got caught.
You could ban all gun sales now, and honest citizens would be even more terrorized by the lunatic fringe.
I wouldn't be so quick to jump on Si....this post started out wreaking of a political agenda....but aside from that, to answer the question When Will it End?
As long as evil exists, it will never end. It's terribly tragic, but it's naive to think there will ever be eutopia here on earth.
posted
I live only a couple of hours east of VT. It's a sad situation and it hurts. I've been there to watch games and there is a huge fan base where I live. We have a few graduates from there in this town and they have family up there also. I haven't heard any news that any of the victims are from here. One thing we can do is pray for them and the families.
-------------------- BJ Carter ABC Signs & Graphics Appomattox,Virginia Posts: 31 | From: Appomattox, VA | Registered: May 2004
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posted
There's another post on the BB concerning today's latest school shooting. The answer to the original question may well dwell in the way we respond to each other.
Will we get angry? Call each other names or use harsh language in an effort to convince people that our answer is the only answer?
I'll allow this discussion to continue as long as you exchange your ideas with respect for each other. It's in your hands.
[ April 16, 2007, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
well said Steve. Todd... what am I missing... is there really something in the original post that began the political undertones? What could possible be blamed as political there?
And Si... well if there is a difference between undertones & overtones... I would guess your post qualifies as having a political overtone ...hmmm, "the usual politicans on the news proposing more silly and useless laws"
Well, I'll give you credit, that was just vague enough it could mean anything. (if we didn't know you )
...so I could then assume that some among us are privvy to what laws will end up being useless, & what laws will have some of the desired effect? nahhh... I doubt that.
I know what, let's just mourn the victims & not climb on their backs to promote a cause at their expense.
I'm sure people mean well when they suggest some solution that does not seem silly or useless to them... but because we are different... one "solution" does not fit all
posted
A tragedy that makes no sense and ones heart hurt, for these families. Personally, I agree with SI & Todd.
We keep saying we need to protect our schools but being defenseless is not a means of defense. How on earth does someone mass murder that many people with a 9mm handgun? Not one soul there had the means to defend them self. For a state that has a right to carry law but not at the Universities, that's a crime in itself. If a legally acquired and trained, concealed carry holder was there and allowed to have his firearm maybe we would be talking about 3 deaths rather than 33.
I mean no disrespect with these comments just some common sense.
quote:I mean no disrespect with these comments just some common sense.
I see no disrespect in your post, Joe. No cleverly couched subtext, no camouflaged personal digs. Just an honest take on a rather difficult off-topic, which, God willing, we'll see few of.
-------------------- Steve Purcell Purcell Woodcarving & Signmaking Cape Cod, MA
************************** Intelligent Design Is No Accident Posts: 900 | From: Cape Cod, MA | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
...Va. has too many loopholes in it's gun laws. It is way too easy here for any putz to buy guns. Perhaps this event will finally compel our lawmakers to tighten up on the easy availability at gun shops, gun shows and lack of background checks. Politics or not, this is what will continue to happen as long as the NRA keeps pushing to make firearms available to any deranged idiot with a grudge who wants one.
Facts are just emerging, so to me it seems pretty disingenuous to begin labeling gun buyers as "putz's" and blaming everything onto the NRA.
The facts at this point are:
1.) Vermont has one of the strongest gun rights programs in the country - AND one of the lowest gun related crime records. Whereas Washington D.C. which has the most restrictive has one of the worst records of gun violence.
2.) Reports have indicated the two 9MM handguns collected from the perpetrator had their serial numbers etched off - - which to me, indicates they were purchased illegally through the black market - - which no gun restrictive laws will EVER affect a lowlifes ability to accumulate.
3.) The NRA has backed (yes Mr. Pickett - backed) instant background checks. These checks will instantly provide crimminal background info and viability on many levels in regards to the individual purchasing a weapon. Do you really think that this Chinese student who is in America on a temporary student visa is legally able to own or purchase a weapon?
There is no "easy availability" of weapons at gun shops. That's just your personal bias spewing out what you wish was true to support your personal agenda. They do not hand out guns like candy.
4.) The NRA does not *push* to make guns available to any deranged idiot with a grudge. C'mon Mr. Pickett, let's be rational here. How would the NRA be served having nutjobs own guns? Why not talk about the hundreds of gun safety clinics the NRA runs and sponsors across the nation? The sporting events they sponsor? The personal protection classes they support? They aren't about arming the bad guy.
The fact is, there has never been a single incident where a gun sought out a victim and discharged itself at that person.
Cases such as these occur when a living human being decides to act upon his evil intention and makes a PERSONAL decision to affect another persons life. Not so different than Ted Bundy breaking into a girls dormitory room and clubbing 2 girls to death with a club. Same evil heart...same determination to act on an evil urge.
Laws will never stop the evil within a person's mind.
My belief is that had select, approved, and trained instructors and staff been allowed to carry on campus (as they tried to do, but were disallowed)they could have minimized the carnage by taking out the assailant post-haste.
I'm in full agreement with Joe.
Doug - I'm reading between the lines on the posters last two sentences....I could be wrong, and if so I apologize for my misinterpretation....I read his last statement of "when will it end?" as a reference to supporting gun control. I assume Si read it that way too. Again, I could be wrong - Donald Miner might want to clarify his thoughts on that statement and his own beliefs on 2nd ammendment rights.
You cannot have a discussion of this incident without expecting both sides of the gun control topic chiming in.
posted
I did not to mean to start a gun control movement in any way shape or form. I personally think that if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. I firmly believe that we should have the right to keep and bear arms. The major problem that I can foresee is the fact that irresponsible people do not always do responsible things. As to when will it end, only God knows the answer to that. If I have upset any one, I am sorry. Let us pray that this incident does not breed any more, as often happens. God Bless you all.
-------------------- Donald Miner ABCO Wholesale Neon 1168 Red Hill Creek Dobson, NC Posts: 842 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
This is a terrible thing. The pain those families must feel is beyond words.
The saying " if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns". Has never been so evident. Te outlaw had the gun.. If every tenth person was fully trained and screened and armed. Then this sick person could've/would've been taken out at first draw.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Regardless of how one feels about guns, I think the question should be more about what can be done to prevent something like this from happening again. Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens has never stopped stuff like this from ever happening before. Washington DC is a prime example.
It'll be interesting to see how VT handles the situation and what steps they'll take to prevent something like this from happening again.
posted
It is indeed sad. My heart goes out to the families as well. And I have heard of it on the radio but have not had a chance to turn on the TV, so excuse me if this is a stupid question.
How many bullets does a 9mm handgun hold anyway? Did this guy not have to stop to reload?
-------------------- Deri Russell Wildwood Signs Hanover, Ontario
You're just jealous 'cause the little voices only talk to me. Posts: 1904 | From: Hanover, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 1998
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posted
Deri, that's not a stupid question. The guy was wearing a vest with ammo. He was changing clips as he went. I don't remember how many bullets a clip holds.
~nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
Deri.....most 9mm will hold anywhere from 10 to 18 bullets in the magazine, altho you can special otder some with 31 capacity. It all depends on the brand and model that he had.
Changing from an empty to a full clip is only a matter of seconds.
[ April 17, 2007, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I spent most of yesterday glued to the TV. I hate that part of me that is attracted to these stories, but it's there. My first question is why?
A commercial just played on CNN. There's an angry guy at a parking lot booth bullying the attendant. The attentant is being called names and threatened with violence. This creep even suggests he'll molest the poor guy's Mom.
The ad goes on to ask us. "Do you like to fight? Those that answer yes are invited to subscribe to some Fight Channel. Now they are back to covering the tragedy.
That brings up another question closer to home. Do YOU like to fight? Why is it the nasty, confrontational posts get so much more responce than the requests for help or much needed teaching posts?
Everyone is trying to fix the blame instead of the real problem. Is there really any defense against some nut determined to kill them all anf let God sort them out? Where did I hear that before?
I'm taking some heat for not following my own rules and deleting these threads. They are probally right. We want all our guests here in Letterville to leave feeling better than when they arrived. Anything that divides us as a Letterhead Community is usually a negative.
Let's be honest. We can't solve all the World's problems, but there could be an opportunity, to look at the way we treat each other here in Letterville. Especially when we disgree.
Do you like to fight? Do you like to watch a good fight? There has to be a better way.
[ April 17, 2007, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
-------------------- Steve Shortreed 144 Hill St., E. Fergus, Ontario Canada N1M 1G9 519-787-2673
posted
Hey guys. Mind if I pull my soap box up and join you? Nobody in their right mind does something like this.....I don't blame guns or immigration....this was the work of a disturbed individual. We need to push for better help for the mentally sick, better tools to identify problems and places for them to turn. We need better education so individuals and those around them can identify the symptoms and triggers that lead up to a tragedy like this. We need safe places for them to heal...places that make both them and us safe. There I'm done....see ya!
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Kelly Thorson: Hey guys. Mind if I pull my soap box up and join you? Nobody in their right mind does something like this.....I don't blame guns or immigration....this was the work of a disturbed individual. We need to push for better help for the mentally sick, better tools to identify problems and places for them to turn. We need better education so individuals and those around them can identify the symptoms and triggers that lead up to a tragedy like this. We need safe places for them to heal...places that make both them and us safe. There I'm done....see ya!
I'll second that.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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