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Are you home based, do you rent, or what? What size is your shop, etc.? Do you think being home based, if you are, is hurtful to your customer base? Reason I am asking, I rent a downtown spot here in harlan, and there are apartments above me. There wasnt any problem until about six months ago, when the landlord started renting to anyone and everyone. Now there are several drug users and sellers in the building, and all the good ones have left. Its causing problems, period. I have to move, and thought about building a shop next to my home which is about five miles east of here. Any viewpoints or advice would be greatly appreciated.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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Home based for 21 years. But then again I do live along a major highway on commercial property. I do get a lot of walk-ins, some of them tire-kickers and the dreaded Yellow Book ladies. But what you're shelling out in rent could pay for a shop on your property. And you would have no commute, thus saving on gas. And more quality time with your kids. I think you've built up enough of a following in your neck of the woods that your clients would still seek you out. And you could always leave "Moved to:" stickers in the window when you switch shops. Love.....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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John I moved from a main street location in our small town of 3500 back in June to a small 24 x 36 building on my yard about 5 miles out of town. I have more business now! The town is dying and nobody goes down main street. I live on a fairly busy 2 lane hiway and it seems my business is going to do well out here.
posted
Been homebased since the beginning. Having the best year ever. Still not enough to build me a new shop though. My only problem is I don't have enough room. Sometimes my living room turns into a paint room!
One thing I don't like is peole coming to my house (technically they aren't supposed to). I don't like having people know what I have in the house or seeing my daughter's room on the way to the office. As a result I end up going to meet people more than I would like. Sometimes I wish I could just say, "If you want to chat about it, come by te shop!"
I wish I was zoned commercial. Then I could build a big steel building and would have the best of both worlds.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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Home based since Jan. 2000-- it will be an adjustment, but chances are, you will never look back! You can pay for a building instead of renting or leasing-- I completly paid for mine with what it would have cost for about 18 months worth of rent someplace else! The only advise-- make sure you separate "Home" from "Work" or it will drive your family crazy. Keep your work hours, or the customers will think they can come around at all hours of the day or night.
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1736 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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We started off as home based, bought a shop with a daily 14,000 traffic count in 2001, and are moving back home after we sell the building.
We found that because a sign, (or anything we offer for that matter), is not an impulse buy, retail space does us very little good. If anything, it's an irritating distraction. We have a very nice open basement with plenty of office and design area and two walkouts. And we live on a high traffic road just five miles north of town We will be building a new shop for painting and fabricating next spring.
The only thing is that DSL is not available there yet.
Edited to say: Great advise Michael, and vise versa. Your work space needs to keep a certain amount of dignity too.
[ September 20, 2006, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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We are home based and always have been. I wouldn't have it any other way for a number of reasons.
Being a home based shop saves money. It also allows you to have a much more flexible schedule. In our case the line between our personal life and business life is quite fuzzy. I don't have one life at work and another at home. We LIKE it that way. But it certainly doesn't suit everyone.
I LOVE to be able to walk out my back door and only 200 feet to work. I can mix personal priorities through my day and then make up time in the evenings if I have to. Business is something I fit around my personal life and not the other way around.
My tools are all in one place.... home projects are much easier that way. I go home for lunch each day.
Our shop is 3100 square feet. The work space is about 1600 square feet, the office another 600 and various storage areas taking up the balance.
Our shop doesn't look like an industrial building out back. Right now it looks MUCH better than our house. When we build our new house the two buildings will match making a neat package.
Being home based doesn't man you have to be less professional.
Mostly it is about lifestyle choice.
Good luck in your decision.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8740 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Especially being that you can build a separate unit and walk out the door to your home at closing time.
Best of both worlds...you'll save on gas, time, etc involved in getting to your business site.
The main problem with working IN the home is that you feel like the work is always looming around the house. You never get away from it and find yourself working constantly...but that wouldn't be AS true with a separate building.
Good luck John!
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Jill Marie Welsh: Home based for 21 years. But then again I do live along a major highway on commercial property. I do get a lot of walk-ins, some of them tire-kickers and the dreaded Yellow Book ladies. But what you're shelling out in rent could pay for a shop on your property. And you would have no commute, thus saving on gas. And more quality time with your kids. I think you've built up enough of a following in your neck of the woods that your clients would still seek you out. And you could always leave "Moved to:" stickers in the window when you switch shops. Love.....Jill
+1 To all of this, and I've been in business for almost 23 years. Plus my gross annual sales are about $200k, so it's not hurting business.
posted
Hiya John, It will take some getting used to and business will slow down some if you go home based. But, as the others have mentioned, there can be more pros than cons. Just be sure to announce that you will be moving and inform all of your current clients of your new location.
Good luck,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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My wife and I started out home based about 11 years ago and had slow, but steady growth over the first 7 years.
Then we decided to move the family to another town and keep the business in it's original location.
At first, it was weird not being able to walk down to the shop on a Sunday afternoon or late at night to take care of stuff, but we soon realized that it was very nice to able to "Punch out" and go HOME once and in while. The first year after we moved out of the shop, We had a couple of real big projects and sales topped 500K!
We never had an issue with tire kickers or time wasters because we were always "By appoiontment only" and have NEVER advertised, and our phone number is un-listed. We've built our business by good referrals and long term relationships. Our sales have continued to increase each and every year.
Most of our clients have never been to our shop, and the ones who have been here, always call first.
With the quality of work that I've seen you do John, I don't think it would matter where you are. The people who are buying from you now, will probably continue to buy from you, even if it takes them 5 miles out of their way.
-------------------- Tom & Sharon Giampia Creative Image Design Port Chester, NY Posts: 285 | From: Port Chester | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Brad Farha: I use subs for installs, no shop help.
impressive! ...I couldn't hit that mark until I had full time help & I was putting in a LOT of hours.. I hit $140K once I had 15 hr a week PT help, but finally hit $200K last year with FT help.
I guess more high dollar items, like channel letters, could push sales figures up pretty quick (just did my first set this month for $10K) & if the manufacturing is outsourced... & the install, then I could see a scenario like that making it possible for me to raise my sales totals, without increasing my hours (or profits if I'm not careful) ...but as I said, Impressive!
quote:Originally posted by Brad Farha: I use subs for installs, no shop help.
I guess more high dollar items, like channel letters, could push sales figures up pretty quick (just did my first set this month for $10K) & if the manufacturing is outsourced... & the install, then I could see a scenario like that making it possible for me to raise my sales totals, without increasing my hours (or profits if I'm not careful)
That's it. I try to avoid "busy work" as much as possible - there's no profit in it, and you just work yourself into the ground. It took me years to figure that out. And I constantly am seeking to upgrade my clientele. The cheap customers will always be cheap. Let them find somebody else to irritate.
posted
Hay Doug If your looking for the big bucks You need to look at institutions .Hospitals colleges, Municipal etc. The last company I worked for did a lot of that and no matter how much they would screw up they made a profit. We did jobs for Harvard University, Logan airport, U mass medical. thay got them by being on a preferd vendor list. I'm sure they worked hard to get on it .Retail,and restaurant just didn't pay well for them Very competitive work . Though I would take what ever I can get as Im just staring out on my own. What sort of signage do you specialize in? Also remember big sales numbers dont mean big profit margine
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JOHN BUDDY....i been at this ful time since 86. in sarasota for 19 yrs FROM HOME and back of van. i moved here in 98, got a store front, $500 a month.....did that for 20 months and it got so bad i couldnt make rent! got me to thinkin, i got a 2 acre home lot, $500x20=$10,000.00 for 20 months and i got NUTHIN FOR THAT MONEY. used to build metal buildings(butlers)so i started lookin. found a place in ark. WWW.STEELBUILDINGS.COM started with a 24'x 40' for $8400.00 for the steel. price of steel jumped 40% dec 2003 so i had to down size it in jan to stay in the $8400.00 range for steel building kit. did a 24'x30' instead. its finished now(basic building)i wound up with $20-24,000.00 in it, but its the way i wanted it....not some rental i got to fix, pay rent and then vacate at some time in the future. if i can be of any help call me.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Both have their merits and downfalls, so answer would be really up to you John, what game you willing to play? It's really that simple...I've done both and made money regardless, it's not about ability of making money from one type of location to another, monies are made by you...regardless of location....tell the guy in truckstop in back of p/u, traveling from one to another, that he's leaving money on the table, so to speak.... If I was your age, possessing what you do, family and such, I'd build a bigassed building on front of residential property and get on w/life, raise my kids in a safe environment, a garden, eat healthy, teach kids the "right" way isn't neccessarily the shortest way, blah-blah-blah, you know...........then when kids were old enough, have them take over business and house, get a motorcoach and come visit our old asses......heheheh
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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John, I don't want to hijack your thread, so I'll throw in my thoughts. Actually following Frank makes it easy...
What he said!
I've never done the home gig, & wouldn't think (especially after reading all these replies) that there is one right answer... both will work, but for you, right now, it sounds like a good time to make that move. The investment in your own property will be equity no matter how you slice it, & you can always rent a commercial space later if you feel the need. The money saved doing the home gig for a while will go a long way (or all the way) to covering that investment anyway. Business may slow down... but that may be good if overhead goes down... then again you might turn it into increased sales as well
Good luck whatever you decide.
(Dana, thanks for the advice... sounds good. I started my sign career in NYC & enjoy doing large architectural signage projects.. there is not as many on them in Maui, so I get a lot of small business sign orders... but I'm am getting some large resort accounts & actively seeking more of them. I'm on track to just about hit $300K this year)
posted
DoubleD, i can't pass up this post,so here goez it. Homebased for about 26 years now.3 locations,same county-area. bigger shop,bigger mortgage each time, wish i had maxed out financing the first time like my wife insisted.Many +'s for my style of work/,market. First, i'm on the road @ shop's working etc., 25% of the time,so a storefront would have to be "manned" etc. Like the others mentioned, some freedom to knock off for a little bit or take care of other errands. Most of my clients call first, so that covers the manning issue's. Like you my website helps provide a "presence" to the community and give directions to the shop they can print out. We made an hours sign @ the office door & on the entrance from the long driveway. privacy is compromised occasionally,but i think your business is more than just making $$, sometimes. We made a parking pad down near the entrance & tell clients,when they want to drop off vehicles early to,lock it up, leave keys in tailpipe etc. also, the county allows home based business here, with a few stipulations, so the neighbors are not an influence or variable. We had this shop, 30 by 30, built when our house was built for us new. And i wish i made it 10 more feet ! You can never have enough room, i'm sure others will agree. So, if i we had to sell this place , the shop, office, it will be very attractive to buyers. And for me,as an Air Reservist, being mobilized or volunteering for short TDY's eliminates the lanlord overhead expense, in 24 years i have had to close down for several months, so that's good chi. Besides, your so good @ what you do THEY WILL FIND YOU ! AND FINALLY, MY CHRISTMAS PARTY'S SUCK ! good thing my wife's company has a really nice one ! amen.
Wherever you end up it doesn't matter but you NEED to get your business OUT of that building ASAP!!
It's only a matter of time before people catch wind of the drug deals and lowlifes hangin around, and quit coming into your shop because of it. Even worse, they might think you're part of it.
I'm homebased and I rent. I do most of my work in a very small space, about 32 sq ft (no joke, a computer table, cutter and light table all stuffed into a corner). Of course the room is larger than that, I just keep everything compact for efficiency. I also have a 1500sq ft garage with 14ft ceiling/12ft door where I can work on larger stuff like airbrush projects or pull in vehicles.
The fact that I'm home based doesn't hurt business, there are so many home based and mobile businesses in town that it's quite the norm! People also like it when you come to them, makes them feel all special and warm and fuzzy, plus they don't need to take the time out of their day to drive around town - and you get to charge them for the value-added service. The fact that the city does not allow home based businesses to put their addresses in advertisements only helps to keep people from dropping in unexpected.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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John, I know, I have only been working for myself for only about 7 yrs, but I love working at home! My little shop upstairs in the barn is only about 50 feet away fromt he house. Yep, at first I had people coming even on Sundays, for goodness sakes! But I didn't have a sign up or anything telling them not to.
It is so wonderful to just walk across the yard to come to work. I would never want to work somewhere else.
Everybody is right, your customers will find you, & 5 miles is not far away! Most of my work is word of mouth, & I am on a backroad!!! They find me when they want me.
And you know what, Mike has a point there...what if the people in the area begin to hear more & more stories about the druggies upstairs, & the rumors grow to even mention you? You know how things gets twisted with gossiping people! I guess that is another reason to move.
Go for it, John!!!! You will love it, you will!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
Oh yeah.. another point about the druggies... won't be long before you start finding your door busted and equipment or tools missing. They gotta pay for their habits somehow and we all know tweakers can't hold a job!
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I have been home based since I started, so I can't really help on the home based vs. storefront.
It seems that part of your concern might be the "in town" vs "5 miles away".
When I started, we lived in town, and I ran the business out of my 26 x 30 garage. After 8 years the "city" started providing a few problems about required landscaping for businesses, and some concern about the number of semi trucks coming into our residential neighborhood.
We found this place in the county with an old 30 x 40 shop, and a 30 x 50 building that had been started. I called a bunch of good customers, and asked if it would be a problem for them if I moved 8 miles South of town. Since I do a lot of vehicles I was concerned about them having to drive so far to drop them. NO PROBLEM.
I did lose 2 customers that buy 1 new truck every 2 years, but I have gained a few more that have fleets. I also lost the "walk-ins" that would keep me tied up for a couple of hours discussing pricing on a $200.00 project. I also lost the "hang-outs" that must have just liked the smell of a sign shop, and would sit around for hours without intending to buy anything.
I like being "out of town".
-------------------- Don Hulsey Strokes by DON signs Utica, KY 270-275-9552 sbdsigns@aol.com
I've always been crazy... but it's kept me from going insane. Posts: 2286 | From: Utica, KY U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 1999
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I surely do appreciate all the responses to my post. Ive gleaned alot of great info from all you guys. I have a place on my property that will accomodate a shop the size I need, so Im gonna start working towards that end. Until that is done, I am moving to another location about a mile from here which is smaller than what I have now, but away from the problems on this particular street. I plan on moving in the next two weeks to this location. I hate moving, but it aint safe here anymore. On another note, we now have about 15 prostitutes in little harlan now too. Its a veritable smorgasbord of smut and crap to pick from.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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That means two moves, which could get confusing for your customers. Any chance of hurrying up the building and sticking it out for a little longer. That would give you a chance to alert all your customers, put some we are relocating signs up and avoid two sets of moves. I just think that if you lose a few each move that kind magnifies things doesn't it?
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Almost all of my customers call me on the phone. I very seldom get walk-ins. Ill still keep the same phone too. I cant get the building up until sometime after the first of the year. I dont want to stay here that long. And if I lose a couple customers, Ill get more later. My health and sanity are more important right now.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
Home/Street based since 85'. But in a month or two I'm gonna build a shop on my property.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3833 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
John, Have Done Both. We had Built a shop at our House and worked from there for 3 years and I loved it. Was nice being at home doing stuff around the house when I felt like it the back to work Like Dan Does.. Then we ran out of room.. (Greed Factor kept taking on larger and larger jobs.)
In Febuary we Moved in this building 5000+sqft We were going to buy it then Another Building Came along that I had been Eyeing for a few years and was less then this building we're in now. Roughly 25,000 Sqft. We closed Last Friday and we're moving this weekend.
I do have to say I really enjoy both ways.. Home was nice but I love having more room. We do plan on building the business up over the next few years and then selling it off hopefully in 5 years. (Exit Stratagy, Different post) Then Back to the Home shop and start something else or like a others do.. Get an RV and go around the country.
It's the Journey not the Destination. If everything works out right I will be semi retired like Si at 45.
Almost all of my customers call me on the phone. I very seldom get walk-ins. Ill still keep the same phone too...... And if I lose a couple customers, Ill get more later. My health and sanity are more important right now.
Well said John, that's exactly what I have realized lately. The additional stress of the studio mortgage is a big nut to crack. Michigan is 49th in the nation for economic growth. Time to trim the fat!
So, I have made the same decision for different reasons.
[ September 22, 2006, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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My partner and I started this business in 1980 with a grand each. We rented for 8 years and finished 1988 with a decent surplus because we print political signs and it was a banner year here in Traverse City.
We found some surplus city property with a building on it and bought it and added a 24'x32' addition to it. I think all together we had about 90K invested. One of the major thoughts on this decision was building some sort of equity/value to this business.
As it turned out, Chuck passed away in 95 and the rental of the building has provided a bit of income for his wife over the years. When it comes time for me to retire I hope it will do the same for us.
When you add things up most of our business are barely worth the equipment we have invested in. Real estate is just that, real.
The only real hassle with a retail shop is you need two sets of most of your "normal" tools! Or in my case, 3 sets as I have a cabin as a weekend getaway tool.
-------------------- Bill Modzel Mod-Zel screen Printing Traverse city, MI modzel@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1357 | From: Traverse City, MI | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm new to this board and am having a discussion about this topic--specifically in regard to shop location--with my wife.
Quite a few of you expressed their opinion saying that location isn't of primary concern, as customers will almost always be willing to drive to a good shop or sign maker, even if it's a bit out of their way. But please allow me to add a specific twist, which applies to our personal situation, and be so kind to respond to that scenario as well.
Let's say you are an experienced signmaker, after many years as an employee starting out on your own. You live in a medium-sized city, where several established sign shops are located on or near "Main Street," so it's very convenient for repeat and new ("drive-by") customers to get their signs done.
In order to save costs, especially in the beginning, you move into a small shop, located a bit out-of-the-way of mainstream customers. Assuming that you aren't really looking for walk-in customers wanting to buy a cheap "No Parking" sign, but owners of small businesses looking for well-designed signs to create an easily recognizable identity for their business (and you are confident there's a market for this), what is your take on location giving THIS particular scenario? Would YOU spend more to move into a prominent location, or would YOU think it really won't make a big difference?
Thank you all for your kind response.
[ September 22, 2006, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: Bernard Paulsen ]
Ventura can well afford another class act, put it out front!!!
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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I think it takes a while to develop your reputation and clientele regardless of location. Walk-ins seem to be desirable customers until these are developed, which just takes time. Then you realize the walk-ins (for the most part) are wasting your time.
posted
John, Been there BOTH ways, back and forth. 30 years ago, started in the basement & garage before starting to work for a sign company full time. Continued working like this for about 7 years. Started working solo and did that for about another 6+ years.
Moved into a shop after awhile. Better visibility, but not great... but better than my house. A few years later, moved into a better & larger location with okay visibility. Business increased.
3 years later, moved back into a house (new house larger workspace), BUT... people thought I dropped off the face of the earth. Struggled for a few months, but we were looking to buy a shop.
Bought a great property with great location... did great for about 6 years.
Moved out of MD to PA. Started a new business in a 3600 s/f building on our property. Slow start in a new market, home-based didn't help much.
Took a leap of faith after 2 years here, as we were struggling , and took a corner store in a prominent location in downtown Gettysburg. NEVER been this busy, even in all of my years as an "established" business in MD.
Home will be fine when I decide to take it easy and retire with a few choice jobs. Until then, I will remain out in the front row!
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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