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I had a job come up a few days ago. A body shop called and needed some lettering done on a van they repaired. Since I was gonne be in the area and since I've turned into a sign/striping whore, I said sure. I checked out the job, a late model Ford van with the two swing open doors on the right side. The lettering pretty well covered the side of the van. The repair was on the quarter. The two doors still had lettering on them. I needed to match three letterstyles. Rather than go buy a throw away camera, get film developed, hunt half a day on the internet figuring the correct fonts ( they had to be exact to flow into the lettering still on the van) then trying to find a source for three fonts ( non of which I had by the way ) I decided I'd hand cut the lettering. I rounded up a little masking paper and was fortunate it was really translucent and I could see right through it without wetting it, traced the lettering, went home , made a pattern , grabbed some black and some white vinyl and proceded to hand cut the letters. Sure , it took longer than if the plotter did it but total time on tracing/perferating and cutting took about and hour. I figure I would have wasted more than that on the great font hunt.
Aggravation, who needs it
I charged 'em $225
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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I remember working in a signshop where we used to cut vinyl by hand on occasion, but more so we would handcut stencils for screenprinting. There was one guy that worked there who really had "touch". I always was a little heavy-handed and would sometimes cut right through not only the stencil, but the backing paper as well. From time to time I maybe miss a "bullet" (the other day) or something else when weeding or tear up a letter on install and would just go to some scrap vinyl in my truck and proceed to plot by hand. For those screenprint stencils we would always use fonts that lent themselves to handcutting such as "stovepipe" styles that were boxy. I did learn that a good quality swivel knife and using my middle finger as opposed to index finger gave me a lighter touch.
-------------------- Rich Stebbing RichSigns Rohnert Park CA 707-795-5588 Posts: 755 | From: Rohnert Park, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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When I do somthing like that on site I take butcher paper and tape over the existing logo and do a rubbing with a pencil or hard charcoal. Tape the paper to your vinyl and cut throught the pattern and into the vinyl for an exact match. Before the days of computer cut vinyl 25 years ago we would hand cut vinyl alot by projecting our the customers logo on 3M vinyl and cut with an exacto knife. Back then you could buy vinyl lettering in a limited number of fonts from 3M. They would never let you in the plant though it was a big secret process. How things have changed. The Colonel
-------------------- Silver Creek Signworks Dick Bohrer Two Harbors, MN Posts: 236 | From: Two Harbors, MN USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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Great way to do that George. I would hate the alternative!
Once, I was asked to letter a bunch of peg board at a motorcycle dealer. I ended up cutting all of the letters out of posterboard by hand & applying them instead.
Cheers
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134 Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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I've learned the trade from 1979 to 1982, which fell right in between the death of handlettering (sorry, I know it's not actually dead) and the birth of vinyl cutters, Very unfortunate in many ways, but the one thing I learned like no other was handcutting. We used a real scalpel, it worked great for us, and we cut tons of screen printing stencils and vinyl. The other apprentice and I were always in a contest to see who can cut faster and we'd criticize each other's work mercilessly until it was near perfect. When we had a larger quantity of the same lettering to do, we'd print it onto white vinyl and then cut it out. This way you don't have to trace every time and you can match whatever colour you want. The skills come in handy all the time, I'm only sorry they didn't teach me more handlettering along with the vinyl cutting.
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A little off the subject here, but I recently bought a little gadget that came with soldering tips, wood burning tips and scalpel type blades. I love my litle hot blade for cutting sandblast mask. You hardly need any pressure and as long as you aren't on a meltable surface (I use mine mainly on glass) you don't marr the substrate. I can really whip along now.
I often end up hand cutting vinyl, especially reflective as my plotter likes to chew on a letter every so often. Hmmm - I wonder how my hot knife would work there.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Hi George, I cut by hand once in a while also. Sometimes for a simple logo I copy it on my copier scaled up to the size I need tape it to the vinyl with masking tape and cut away. Quicker than scanning and screwing around with all that nonsense.
-------------------- Tom Rose 1938 Model Sign Dude T.Rose Signs Whitehall,PA Posts: 327 | From: Whitehall,PA,USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Yup, when I have to. Helps a lot to be able to hand-letter in a situation like this. Love.....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Just finished a small job that had to be hand cut. Graphic flame design on an international tractor. Had to replace the hood side and door. Faster to take a rubbing with green masking paper and cut thru stencil and vinyl. The only problem was matching the color. I'll keep that roll in stock since the trucking company has 15 trucks with the same design. Took a few pics though, and may digitize the design since this is the second truck I've repaired for them.
-------------------- Ron Costa Sign and Design 28 Ingerson Road Jefferson, NH 0358 Posts: 620 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2002
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Hiya George, If I could use a brush as well as I could an exacto, I wouldn't need a plotter I took a big step backwards after 2 years in this business and went from a modern franchise with all the "cool" tools to work for a traditional sign maker. He had a sprint, but a lot of his work was done with a brush and hand cutting of vinyl. It was one of the best things I could have done. When I started there, hand cutting vinyl logos was the norm. I couldn't even guess at the number I've done over the years. Just that experience alone has taught me so much about traditional sign making - not that I would want to do it that way again. Just last week I was in a similar situation where hand cutting was a lot quicker and easier than a plotter. Also, for 1 or 2 letters, I use a trick Dave Draper mentioned a while ago. Just place some transfer tape over a duplicate letter and make a rubbing. From there, peel the tape and apply it to the new vinyl and cut it. It may not be a perfect solution, but it's quick and can get you out of a bind
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Back in the 50's, when I was still pretty new in the trade, a #11 X-Acto was a tool we used a lot. We Hand cut a LOT of vinyl back then. About all that was available in those days was 3-M Scotchcal, but it worked quite well. The shop I worked for had several beer distrubutors, a couple of dairys and a bakery for accounts. We hand cut BIG letters on those trucks, as well as a lot of hand cut spray mask. We didn't think it was any big deal at the time. In fact it was usually easier than the hand cut silk screen stencils we cut on a daily basis.
-------------------- Jerry Mathel Retired Grants Pass, Oregon signs@grantspass.com Posts: 916 | From: Grants Pass, OR USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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George - I hear ya - sometimes in cases like yours I do a rubbing - any paper will usually work in a pinch along with a pencil stub - but alas Dick Bohrer beat me to it above - I also try to remember to carry my digital camera - much more efficient than film cameras - I would hate to have to guess the number of signs I hand cut before I bought a plotter - used to enlarge paper patterns on copy machine - rubber cement to blank vinyl - then hand cut - yea them wuz them good 'ol days . . . .NOT ! ....
-------------------- Carl Wood Olive Branch, Ms Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999
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I've done it a few times in the past years and found that I had to brighten their lettering since they were older and duller than the new letter /repair. sheesh I keep thinking I need a cutter!
-------------------- AirbrushBobby.com Clearwater, FL The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.1Cor1:18 “The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord”Rom6:23 Posts: 505 | From: Clearwater Florida USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Until just over a year ago, I did'nt have a plotter for over 15 years.
I was ordering vinyl ready cut, but the company had a $120 set-up charge just for 'simple logos'. I only took them up on it once when I had 40 home health cars to do. Never found out what they charged for 'detailed' stuff.
Other than that one qty. job, on every job I wanted to use vinyl, I ordered raw material by the runnin' foot, projected a pattern and hand-cut. For these I don't pounce, but use black or white carbon paper.
Even with a plotter now, I still do the same thing because as you said George, by the time you draw the thing up in the program and tweak and 'fix it', you could had it patterned, cut masked and applied, altho' I do draw-up plain ones in the plotter.
Wish I could post pics so I could you some recent jobs. I'll figger it out soon.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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I used to do boats back in the 70's with a gold mylar that 3m put out, hand cut all that stuff, applied it and then outlined and shaded I made paper patterns and pounced with talc on the gold. Bill
-------------------- Bill & Barbara Biggs Art's Sign Service, Inc. Clute, Texas, USA Home of The Great Texas Mosquito Festival Proud 10 year Supporter of the Letterheads Website www.artssigns.com "MrBill-" on the chat page MailTo:biggsbb@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1020 | From: Lake Jackson,Tx | Registered: Nov 1998
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This reminds me of watching Mack Thompson of Ft. Smith, Arkansas, cut out four sets of vinyl lettering all at once. He would cut through four layers of tightly taped-down Scotchcal, then carefully lift each set with a piece of "sticky-back" paper. Of course, the backing paper had to be removed letter by letter on each reading, but he still saved time. I also watched him hand cut hundreds of letters 5/8" tall, reversed, for back-lit menus for Western Sizzlin Steakhouse. It took him three days to do a complete menu. My fingers hurt thinking about it.
One of his secrets was a knife blade that looked like a number eleven, but wasn't. It was beefier at the tip and didn't lose its point like an eleven. It might have been called a #21. I don't remember exactly, but it was an Xacto, and it cost twice as much as the elevens. I wonder if it's still available?
Brad in Kansas City
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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