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Much depends on how high the pole is, the size of the sign (for wind load) and type of soils. There's another post further down that well illustrates basic dimensions for footers. Personally, I've always welded cross beams near the bottom of the pole, then sunk the whole shebang into the hole and then poured the concrete in. The cross beams help stabilize the pole while the concrete sets, but I wouldn't do only just that for anything higher than 12' off the ground.
Rick
-------------------- Rick Tam Arte Design Studio Downingtown, PA milne2@msn.com Posts: 278 | From: Downingtown, PA | Registered: Apr 2004
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Rick, I have two separate jobs with poles to set.
For one job, the sign will be 10' off the ground with a 4'' sch40 steel pole, is 72''x40 and will have a windload of about 528lbs requiring .88yds (or 1 yard) of concrete.
The other job the sign is only 4' off the ground with a 5.5'' steel pole, is 10'x6'with a 4'x4' pole skirt and will have a combined windload of about 2006 lbs needing 2 yards of concrete
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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For signs that small, especially with the monument sign, I see no problem with direct embedment into the concrete. I would still reinforce around the pole with some welded attachments just so it doesn't rotate if the concrete loosens around it later on. I always try to err on the side of caution and go a little heavier with the concrete load, or dig a deeper hole.
Rick
-------------------- Rick Tam Arte Design Studio Downingtown, PA milne2@msn.com Posts: 278 | From: Downingtown, PA | Registered: Apr 2004
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Either way will work, Wayne, but the flange way is a lot more work and more costly. For a small sign the direct way would be more practical. Like Rick said, though, be sure to weld on some 'stick-outs', or run a couple bolts thru, or drill large holes in the bottom of the pipe; all done to prevent the pipe from rotating in the wind later on.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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I erected a sign where the top of the sign is 30 feet high with the poles directly embedded in the concrete. This sign is 8' x 8' on the top, a 2 foot gap, then a 5' x 14' section. This sign took a direct hit from a tornado. The tornado slightly twisted the two poles near the top, but we never lost any of the Alumalite panels and there is no cracking of the concrete. It's been up 6 years now, 4 after the tornado.
The bolt method is more expensive because the bolts are huge, need to be made of high strength steel, and the plate is usually quite thick as all the windload is transfered to those bolts.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5407 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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When I read this, I decided to come out of "lurk mode" for a bit. One of the common mistakes that is often made when setting a direct imbedment pole is to let it rest on the bottom of the hole, particularly if you are in an area with a high water table. With the pole resting directly on the damp earth, the pole has a tendency to rust from the inside out. It's not usually a big thing, but back in my day, sign poles had a tendency to be around for a longer period of time. Anyway, the simple fix we used for many years was to drop an old auto wheel in the hole and then set the pole on top of that. Then when the concrete was poured, the bottom of the pole was sealed off from moisture
-------------------- Jerry Mathel Retired Grants Pass, Oregon signs@grantspass.com Posts: 916 | From: Grants Pass, OR USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Thanks Jerry, Jeff, I wondered about that and it was one of my reasons for asking the initial question. I was a bit skeptical of installing a pole with a wall thickness of 3/16'' or 1/4'' because of any trapped water's ability to rust it through, over time, as oppposed to a bolt with a thickness of 1''.
It should work to just set a couple of concrete cap blocks under the pole before pouring.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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