posted
Ok, most of you guys are really good at hand lettering & REAL fast at it too. I am not as good as most of you, but I LOVE doing it, & I have a very simple job to do tomorrow, all hand painted, by my choice.
My problem is, I tend to really overload my paint on the brush, I guess, because it sags, you know, it drips. Now, if i thin it a bit, it will fade faster, & I will have to re coat it , right? Well, shouldn't I double coat it anyway?
I mean, I can paint the letters, & as they get tacky, can't I recoat right then?
I will be using chrome yello One Shot, outlined in black. Oh yea...*** Is there anything you can mix in your yellows & whites to make them cover better? I think some of you once said a drop of silver in white. How 'bout my chrome yello?
These are all important questions, & ANY tips will be greatly appreciated by me, & anyone else out there who may be too skeered to ask!
posted
I like to put a couple of drops of fire red into chrome yellow for better coverage.
Wait for your lettering to dry and then double coat it.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Apply transfer paper, layout your letters or use a pattern, cut the letters out with an x-acto, peel the letters, roll or brush ( using a cutter, make it heavy ) your chrome yellow. Pell off the rest of the transfer paper, outline in black. Sounds like a lot of work but it takes no longer than hand lettering....nevermind double coating.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Definitely let your lettering enamel dry before recoating or it will "pull" and you will not be satisfied with the results.
Posts: 51 | From: Spout Spring, VA. | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Maybe try a little imitation gold w/ c. yellow, c.yellow is terrible cover on any bkgr. color even white. As far as thinning' 1-shot carries reducers for cold & warm weather as opposed to mineral spirits. Recoating when tacky, never worked for me, I usually wait atleast overnite, everytime I pushed it it wrinkles up.
-------------------- Doug Rontz Doug Rontz Signs Jim Thorpe, Penna. signguy00@yahoo.com Posts: 9 | From: Jim Thorpe, Penna. | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I sometimes add a little light blue to the white for coverage and instead of using chrome yellow I add a little magenta or rodamine red to Lemon..it gets you that really golden "Crayon Yellow" (I love it) and it covers really well.
Second coating can be done several ways but if your not using hardner this is what I do...imediately after lettering a line of copy I take the same paint i just used and thin it down a bit and go right over it again...but don't stroke over and over it or you'll be in trouble...one time over is all...it goes really quickly and never wrinkles this way.
-------------------- "Werks fer me...it'll werk fer you"
posted
I like George's idea about cutting a mask & rolling it on, sounds quick!
And Monte, I like your tricks with the white & yellow too.
I want to get betetr with the brush, so i probably will do this with my brush, go over copy & re coat it.
My sign painter friend who passed away before Christmas left me a whole mess of cans of paint, almost all One Shot, but some is VERY old. It was always kept indoors on a shelf. Will I have any problems with this old paint? He kept them all so very neat, tops wiped clean & all.
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I discovered Darby's Reducerin '81, A formulation Roy Darby concocted in 1945, and Pacific Coast Paint in Portland, Ore. has been carrying ever since. It doesn't weaken the paint, but allows you to double coat, do a letter, then another, then double coat the first one, etc..... Also good for cutting in too. About 30.00 US a gal.
Cutting in..... where the Real Fun Is!!
John
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Pallet your brush Bobbie. Only thin the paint enough to flow smoothly with the brush. 'Til it feels really smooth. Changes in weather tempature can change this feel, so you might have to thin a tad more as you go.
It's ok to load the brush, just pallet it out on something smooth - a magazine, a peice of scrap aluminum so when you go to pull a letter you have the right amount of paint ready to stroke on.
You can add a a few drops of white or silver to get it to cover better if ya want.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
This is why I am a flat-painter Bobbie. Lay the damn thing flat and paint it. That way, gravity is NOT your enemy! I only paint "up" at meets when I wanna look like a real sign painter. I never pallette my paint either, just use the edge of my cup. I think the old paint you received may be better than the new paint you buy! Just make sure to stir it real well and strain it. Chromatic's "Edge" flow enhancer is really good stuff too. I never thin with mineral spirits as I feel it dulls the paint, I only use Turps or Edge. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here is a tip from an old sign painter: I never double coat the white or yellow. To make the white cover in one coat, just add a couple drops of black. It will turn to a very light gray, but will look as white as snow on a dark background. To make the yellow cover in one coat, add a little one shot white and a couple drops of black. Like Monte Jumper says, it works for me. A lot of people add silver to the colors, but I find that it never totally mixes in. Jill has good information, if you can't mix your paint to flow properly, then work on a flat surface and it can't drip. If your paint is too thick, it can wrinkel up when it dries.
-------------------- Bill Riedel Riedel Sign Co., Inc. 15 Warren Street Little Ferry, N.J. 07643 billsr@riedelsignco.com Posts: 2953 | From: Little Ferry, New Jersey, USA | Registered: Feb 1999
| IP: Logged |
I like that, Jilly! And the sign is only a 2'x6' sign, whoopee!!!!
This is one of those "cheap-o" customers who wants it cheap, & hey, I can do that, I need the cash. So he gave me an old PPG sign that he sanded & repainted with auto paint, then wants me to put 2 short lines of copy on it, with a Camero. I found that souped up cartoon camero in my Vector Art cd, & voila!
You guys think $100 for this is too cheap? I like the guy, despite him being cheap, so I don't mind. Good practice for my brushwork, & calming, too.
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Becuase if i mask & roll, it does nothing for my hand painting abilities! I want to learn to hand paint like all you guys do!
And you know what else? I don't care if using vinyl is quicker, or whatever, I WANT TO PAINT BETTER!!!!!!
And I have been thinking.... Seeing those beautiful glass gilded pieces by Kelly tells me she can hand paint very well, or her glass work would not look so excellent. Someday I want that excellence, too. I don't care that I am getting older, I don't care if I ever get rich. I want to do this.
I admire ALL of you, & I am so grateful that you will share your stuff with me! Thanks!!!!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
Being able to not only paint a letter, but also to get it to flow out evenly is something that just comes with practice. But one thing to look at is this: you are supposed to be looking for ridges and sags AS you paint, and should be constantly brushing and feathering them out.
A good way to see this better, is by taking some quick size and tinting it with some Chrome yellow(or whatever). Because it it transparent, you are able to see the brushstrokes very well, so you can see any build-ups you have, and can brush them out as you go along. The gold size must be applied as evenly as possible, with no ridges and thick spots.(Thicker areas will show as dull spots when you gild).
It's an art to be able to paint a letter and smooth everything out before it starts tacking up. I call it "laying off" the paint.
By doing some practice letters with gold size,you will also be practicing looking for the build-up. And that's what you need to do, look for it while it's happening, not going back later and trying to fix things. So having good light, even maybe a side light in addition to overhead lights,is one of the keys to helping you to see better while you're painting, so you can flow that paint out.
It may be that your paint is too thick, but it may also be that you're just not able yet to see the thicker build-ups when they happen, and haven't quite developed the art of smoothing as you go. Don't worry though...you will learn to do this automatically before long.....
-------------------- Jeff Ogden 8727 NE 68 Terr. Gainesville FL, 32609 Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Chrome yellow, like all the yellows doesn't cover worth a flip. Imitation gold covers really well. If the guy is a chepskate tell him chrome yellow is gonna cost extra. Watch how fast he'll settle for Imitation Gold I used to avoid yellows at all costs. Anytime I HAD to use it I did the cut and roll/brush method. If it was single stroke lettering it would really be doctored. I've never seen it done but they say there is more than one way to skin a cat. Have to use chrome yellow. Letter in something that will cover better and that's gonna be just about anything say white for instance, then come on top of the white with an inline, neon stripe or an internal shade using yellow. The customer gets his yellow and you save a ton of aggravation. Adding a neon stripe ( a line down the center of each letter stopping short of the ends ) only takes a few minutes more and the customer thinks they are getting something really extra! One benifit of hand lettering as opposed to vinyl is the number of "cheap tricks" that are available to you.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Cool! hey, thank you jeff for that info on watching for the build up & sags. I wish i could sit under you!
And George, My sign painter friend who just passed recently left me a bunch of flourescent One Shot paints, my , all kinds of colors of One Shot, the cans are OLD, & the paint is not skinned over! I could try one of these new colors to brighten my letters. And no, I don't HAVE to use chrome yellow, (thought I would make it bright) but the layout I showed him had yellow, & I DO have imitation gold!
Just got done with the camero, now on to the letters....
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
My old mentors used to call the sagging paint "lace curtains"...It was never explained to me why they used this term or where it came from.
They always use to yell at me, "hey, brush those lace curtains out...don't be daydreaming..." (and that's a nice translation of what was said!)
hahahahahah! Those were the days.
But I do remember them telling me to thin the paint so that when you take your brush out of the cup and the excess paint is running off the brush, it should not pile up on top of the other paint, but dimple the surface and not drip or splatter.
That's how you know you got it the right vicosity. And I check this out when I paint, which the last time I hand painted anything important (old vehicle restoration lettering) was way back last year or two or three...hmmm! ....sigh!
And my mentors did exactly what Monty said about double coating right after lettering, thin the paint a little and quicky go over it again.
They only used mineral spirits to thin their paints, and that's probably not the best thinner to be using nowadays.
Hand painting is still a very enjoyable craft, keep working on it.
posted
Bobbie, if you ever get the chance to watch Jeff letter you are in for a real treat. I've seen hunderds and hundreds of people letter at various meets and shops over the years. I've never witnessed precision like Jeffs!!!!
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
A few drops of silver into the white helps with coverage and if you need to touch it up down the road, helps blend it in a little better.
If you take the step of masking, maybe a sprayable paint would be another option. Maybe an aerosol or automotive color? They dry faster and can be recoated several times for better coverage.
Hope this helps.. Rapid
PS: See you at the Dixie meet!
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bobbie, Like Shiela said, it's very important to pallette your brush. Even if you thin too much, by pulling the brush on the palette it removes the excess paint and also gives you that chisel edge that is very important to sharp lettering. I don't thin my paint in a cup, I work with paint and thinner in two cups and thin as needed.
-------------------- Lou Pascuzzi www.economysigns.com Fine Hand Lettering since 1973 Danbury, Ct 203-748-4580 "IOAFS" Posts: 341 | From: Danbury, Ct | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hey, I would'nt count on Jon bein' bored or wanting to go explore sites . . . he will definitley 'get into' the meet and enjoy it as much as you . . . ask Si's wife Marty!!
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Louie & Sheila, I do pallette my brush. I use a margarine lid or my pallette I got at Jill's Mars meet for that, & I use an extra cup for my thinner. You are right, Louie, about getting that chisel edge right.
I finished the sign , then called Jon up to see it, & his blood was boiling. He said it was worth $200, & not the $100 I charged the guy for it. He said, "You are NOT practicing anymore, it looks great."
So when the guy showed up, I had charged him $15 extra for the word "OFFICE" that I had cut out of vinyl for his door, & he had a fit! He accused me of "raking" him!!!!! He was even mad that I wrote him a receipt & charged him sales tax! Now, I USED to whimper about it, when people did this to me.
This time I did NOT!!!!! I told him he was lucky he got it for $100, & that yes, he added on the word he needed AFTER I gave him the price for the handpainted sign.
I am handling things much better now, & no, I am not puffed up with a big head. Many of you are better painters than I am, but this really did come out nice, too nice for "practice".
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Chrome yellow is a monster all by itself - three coats minimum. But as someone else said, im god covers well and dries fast. So... letter first in im gold, use low-temp reducer (dries faster) then second coat with CY. You get coverage and color.
Monte, I like the tip on using magenta in lemon. One of my favorites is to start with primrose yellow and add purple a drop at a time - you can achieve some wonderful "golden yellow" tones that are warmer and brighter than imitation gold. Starting with lemon yellow gives a different tone, and chrome yellow with just the right amount of purple produces the exact color of a fresh glass of Sam Adams ... oh, is it beer-thirty already?
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
The Chrome yellow I've used here is OK for coverage, but Process yellow, now THAT'S an insipid weak transparent awful colour...!
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bobbie, Glad to hear you're coming down for the Dixie Meet. I'm hoping we can persuade Jeff to come as well - watching him paint a panel is like seeing magic. And he's a pretty good guitar picker too......
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
| IP: Logged |
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Thanks]](graemlins/thanks.gif)
One of my favorites is to start with primrose yellow and add purple a drop at a time - you can achieve some wonderful "golden yellow" tones that are warmer and brighter than imitation gold. Starting with lemon yellow gives a different tone, and chrome yellow with just the right amount of purple produces the exact color of a fresh glass of Sam Adams ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
... oh, is it beer-thirty already?
Printer-friendly view of this topic