posted
Hey guys, Just curious i am producing, actually i already produced a banner for our local chamber of commerce. Just wondering What would you charge 13 oz banner. 4 colors Intermediate vinyl Here is the link Wilmas Banner
Size is 3' x 12'
Thanks
Carlos
Will post my price after a few replies
-------------------- Carlos Herrera VisionaryGrafix P.O. Box 2188 Wilmington, CA 90748 Posts: 195 | From: carson, ca, usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Sorry Carlos... I just got in the spirit & couldn't help myself! I would get $294.00 for the red background & $252.00 for the white. $252 for your design also.
-------------------- Michael R. Bendel Bendel Sign Co,. Inc. Sauk Rapids, MN Posts: 913 | From: Sauk Rapids, MN | Registered: Jul 2005
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$288 for your design. I would do a co-op with the chamber and include your business name & logo for a reduced rate. Usually I charge 50% of actual price. I do this for our annual parade and the return of that advertising on the banner in front of the parade brings in 50x the rebate I gave. Also this ad makes your company the second place for people to call for info on chamber activities (leads). 95% of my customers are business owners and when seing my business associated with the chamber and involved in my community, makes them followers and loyal customers.
P.S. If you aren't the only sign biz in your community, give the banner away! that way you have just put the chamber and the members on your side!
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Denis, I WAS the secretary of the chamber of commerce. Last time I looked, they bought a few signs and banners from someone else! So much for loyalty. (this is the town that had 4 murals painted by the Letterheads) Sorry for the sour grapes. Love.....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Jill Marie Welsh: Denis, I WAS the secretary of the chamber of commerce. Last time I looked, they bought a few signs and banners from someone else! So much for loyalty. (this is the town that had 4 murals painted by the Letterheads) Sorry for the sour grapes. Love.....Jill
Sour grapes are appropriate, Jill. If you ever pull up stakes, it'll be tempting to write a letter to the editor along those lines. (Old Amish proverb: "Never burn the bridge you're standing on."
posted
We would charge at least $325 for the design as is. I don't understand anyone charging less for a 13oz. 3x12 banner. For the time it will take to talk to the client, do the layout, cut, weed & apply the vinyl, plus the cost of the vinyl & the banner, the job is not worth any less. Besides, It's more sq. feet than a 4x8,& banners are more work to apply vinyl to than say a .040 aluminum panel & the cost difference for the substrates is really not much, so are you saying that you would do an .040 aluminum 4x8 for the same price or less? Painting it would be an option to save on materials & time, but I would think you would need a really large shop (expensive) to layout the finished banners to dry so you could move on to the next project, as at the prices above for painting, we would need to do at least 3 per day to survive. I know our cost of living here is higher than for some of you out there, but it can't be that much different. Our shop is just my wife & I, and we really need $700.00 a day in gross sales to just to make a living. Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I think the industry as a whole has so undervalued itself to the point that having health insurance, sending your kids to college or saving for retirement are not possible to most of us, but as proffesionals in our field, they should & can be if we stop under pricing our work.
-------------------- Jim Hansen Tri-Star Graphics Bethel, Ct. 800-716-6500 e-mail:tsgracingdecals@aol.com www.tsgracingdecals.com Posts: 51 | From: Bethel, Ct. usa | Registered: Jan 2001
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I just sold a 3' x 14' Full Bleed Digital for $336. It cost me $80 from the wholesale printer on 13 oz. material with hems/grommets. All I did was the layout which took about 10 minutes.
That only comes out to $8 sq.ft. which is quite cheap. I'd normally go higher but this was for a friend. I'd never sell any banner cheaper than that. I hate doing banners. Printing is the only way to go for me as I don't have space or time to mess with these big things.
My competition sells them for $4/sq.ft. but my design is better so I can still get the jobs!!
[ December 03, 2005, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Amy Brown ]
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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The sad thing is, Jim, that there will always be someone to make this banner cheaper.
The sign industry has not undervalued itself, it is hacks buying plotters on eBay, flea market moms & pops with sign cutters, "hobbyists" who make signs for fun, you name it. Clients around here don't care if a sign looks good or bad, as long as it is "affordable". I have to compete with this every day.
One does not have to be a good designer or even know how to spell for that matter to make and sell signs on the cheap. With the advent of the Edge and the Versacamm etc., you can get even more butt-ugly cheap signs puked out by these cowboys. Luckily they will all fade in about 3 years tho.
I'd be lucky to get $195 for it here. $700 a day? Man, I've made less than $700 a month for the past 4 months. I am on the verge of bankruptcy and I have 3 kids. College? I'm lucky to keep a roof over their heads and food in their bellies. At least my younger 2 have health insurance thru the state.
I can't afford to be too choosy about what jobs I take. Heck, I'd be happy to have this banner job, and I'd do my best. I might even consider Laura's horse blanket client at this point.
Sorry for the rant and the poor-mouthing, and also for hi-jacking Carlos' thread. And Don, if the C of C or anyone in Mars Boro ever wants my work again, they will pay as top a dollar as I can get away with charging! Love.....jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
ya,, Ditto the chamber here too.. I was a member for years.. I watched several members here get the royal screwing. Lots of chamber events here at that time catered to the real estate group. Who as we all know are the cheap searchers...
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Thank you all for your responses. The reason for this posting is because i had called Kinkos just to see what they would charge. They quoted me $90 + $15 for the logo. a fellow signperson for whom i do digital printing came in and i thought to ask what would he get for a banner that size. His response was about $120. Granted i didnt show him the layout, just asked about the size. I thought both were way to low. I can normally get $120 for a 2 x 8 single color on 10 oz. No logo, no nothing extra just plain text. For this banner i am getting $250. I do take in to account going to the client and time spend working on the details. Even at $250 i still think they are getting their moneys worth. If you saw the banner i was replacing you would definately agree. Also i have done work for the chamber in the past, so i already gave them some deals on previous work, now i think its time to charge what its worth.
Thanks Guys
-------------------- Carlos Herrera VisionaryGrafix P.O. Box 2188 Wilmington, CA 90748 Posts: 195 | From: carson, ca, usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Jim Hansen: Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I think the industry as a whole has so undervalued itself to the point that having health insurance, sending your kids to college or saving for retirement are not possible to most of us, but as proffesionals in our field, they should & can be if we stop under pricing our work.
Jim we would get along great. I've been beating the same dead horse so long that it's tender enough to pass off as filet mignon...
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
Does a beginner dentist charge as much as a seasoned pro? Yes!
Does the same beginner dentist charge less becaue he can? NO!
Does a beginner lawyer charge less to do a divorce verses a seasoned pro? No, he cannot because the fixed costs are the same. Would eh charge less becaus eh can? NO!
So why should we.. just because we can.. We shouldn't..
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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"Does a beginner lawyer charge less to do a divorce verses a seasoned pro? No, he cannot because the fixed costs are the same. Would eh charge less becaus eh can? NO!" Actually, Yes, a beginner lawyer does charge less. Lawyers charge wildly different prices and within a large firm you are not going to pay an associate the same rate as a partner. Should a new sign person who takes all day to do the same job a pro does in 3 hours charge the same price? Or vice versa?
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Funny, Badass Bob. Very damn funny!!! Makes me hungry for steak.
But oh, so true!!
I get what I get and make no apologies. Jim IS right. With no entry requirements in this profession you will always have hacks to do work for cheap. But that tire-kicking kind of price shopper customer isn't my kind of client anyway - so who cares?
Auto mechanics face that same thing (no entry requirements) - but do the large auto repair shops sit around and bitch about the little guys doing it cheaper? Nope. They go out and get the business somehow. Why not in this profession? Beacuase you MUST learn how to run your business properly. Many of us started out doing stuff on the side and cheaper - so why isn't it OK for the new guy coming up?
Kinko's is a different story - that is DEEP pockets from a 'mother company" (FedEx) picking up the tab for advertising, etc. - but they may use cheap banners as a "loss leader" to only sell other things that may have higher profit margins!! But that is what they are able to do - and it works because they have losses they can absorb for a while until profitable.
Cultivate clients who WILL pay for your advice and counsel - and signs. Don't waste energy on those who won't.
Like Mike Jackson wrote once, "Would Gary Anderson's sign work thrive in your town if he moved there and started up shop?" If you think the answer is 'no', you might be surprised.
Quality. Service. Both for a fair price - but "fair" goes both ways and too often many 'signtists' don't do that.
The way to do short-term banners these days (and aren't ALL banners short-term?) is to digitally print them based on a nicer design. Then you can spend time chasing work that WILL pay better instead of spending the same time laying vinyl copy on a banner at a loss.
It isn't how long to make the sign - it is HOW LONG TO MANAGE THE PROJECT? Those are two different times 'heads!!!
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Justify it how you want,,, But the point is,, Charge the right amount,, Not cheaper because you can...
quote: Should a new sign person who takes all day to do the same job a pro does in 3 hours charge the same price? Or vice versa?
Yes!!!! A banner or any peice for that matter should bring in a good amount of money,, Just because some noob takes 4 hours and I can do it in 30 mins doesn't mean anything. The VALUE of that peice is what counts. Just because a noob does it in 4 hours does not make the VALUE of that piece any less.
It just makes him less money per day while I can make more money per day.. Simply because I can do more.
Its all in the VALUE...
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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Jill, Don't get me wrong, I got screwed more then a few times by chambers around my neck of the woods! But the way I figured it out, the chamber comitee changes every 2 years but the members stay the same , or close to the same. Members of the chamber become loyal customers, not the running comitee , they take those position cause it looks good being treasurer and or the president of the chamber.
Doing this "goodwill" for the chamber, as given my business the exposure that could of cost me over 25k to do otherwise. I have now become the focal point of most activity in our community and I would say pick up 95% of all new business starting or coming into our region.
I'm not charging cheaper for the work, just investing in publicity "really good publicity".This year I was the one pulling Santa's slead. What an exposure!
I'v learn that i'm not the type to watch the parade go by, I'want to do the parade ! For now this is working really well and would suggest it to everybody.
As of 2 months ago, my better half has left her regular 40k w/benefits job to come and work full time for me.
In life you have to be "optimist". Actually I'm the past president from the local optimist club. Another good organisation to join and do good to your community. Not to forget all the other good exposure it could give your business.
Anyway this is my story and it seems to work wonders for us and can only suggest to others to try it
posted
"Should a new sign person who takes all day to do the same job a pro does in 3 hours charge the same price? Or vice versa?" I misspoke, I was referring to hourly rate, not cost of the final product. In other words when I was starting out and it took me forever to layout and letter a 4x8 I didn't get more for the sign, but made much less per hour than the pro who could knock it out, and probably didn't even get the same price because I didn't have the reputation or quality either. Which was in reference to the rate a new lawyer would charge vs a seasoned pro. A new associate might bill at $125/hour vs the lead who gets $500/hour.
posted
I usually charge $10.00 a square foot for all banners - printed in full color.
I get them printed from another printer, but I usually include some design time in every job, and I make sure my client knows that they are getting some design time included - the amount depending on the size of the order.
So, my price would be $360, with 1.5 hours of design time included at no additional charge.
-------------------- Randy Graphic Details Promotional Merchandise Distributor South Glens Falls, NY Posts: 381 | From: South Glens Falls, NY USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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I just finished a banner for the local C of C.The banner was 4'x25'(some replys said that this might be too big, but I had Already had it, it looked small when it was up between too poles about 40' apart,but it was not mounted correctly and the bottom straps ripped after about four days.) I did an 18 oz red 2 sided for $400. I know this was a very low price but as others have said I was trying to help out our local C of C. They want another banner done but I'm not shure if it should be smaller, anyways good luck !
-------------------- Phil Swanson Lake George Lettering 151 New Hague Rd. Hague, NY 12836 lakegeorgelettering@yahoo.com Posts: 24 | From: 151 New Hague Rd. Hague, NY 12836 | Registered: Oct 2005
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wow...i certainly wouldn't do a 3x12 for less than $360.00 as long as they provided the artwork and i just have to print the file. i don't understand this industry at all...jim, i totally agree with you!!! i'll do something else before i start giving this shyt away at $5/sq ft!
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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