posted
OK, I'll admit it we watch waaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy to much HGTV
I've been noticing some things on some of their shows. Some of them deal with getting houses ready to sell. They make improvements to these houses so they will bring better prices. The prices on these houses are, well, just a little different than they are in our neck of the woods..........a WHOLE lot different!!!!!!!!!!! I saw one the other night, the house was 12-1500 sq. ft. and , well kind of a dump. Around here, depending on the neighborhood, it would bring $55,000 to $80,000, no more. In the neighborhood they were in, houses of a similar nature sold for $400,000!!!!!!!!!!! Another one featured a two story, that around here might go for $150,000-$160,000. There they sold for $700,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now the folks that owned this house looked like just regular working people, their furniture wasn't too hot and nothing indicated they were rolling in dough. Here we have plenty of $700,000 houses but they are occupied by doctors, lawyers and Fed Ex pilots. What I'm getting at is, since these folks look like ordinary people, what the heck is they average pay where they live????????? Is minimum wage $30 an hour????????? If the housing prices are this far out of whack, are 4x8's going for $2,000 ? One more thing, how hard would it be to move a house from Tennessee to California
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
I'm stunned at the difference in apartment rent in most basic towns, and in apartments located in the suburbs of Dallas.
A small one bedroom decently nice apt. 45 traffic-filled minutes from down-town Dallas: $530 a month.
Here, that same apartment would be $200 if it were 45 minutes from downtown, and only MABEY $300 right in town.
In downtown Dallas, a not-so-great 'town-house' apt goes for $850 to $1,100 a month.
The same thing with the houses here and there. My son-in-law was tellin' me he wishes he could move the historical homes from Selma to Dallas. His parents $200,000 antebellum here? Could go for about $600,000 there.
Both my kids make more than twice the money for what they do there than they could get for the exact same jobs here.
I'm not too sure what sign rates are out there...which is one reason I ain't pulled up stakes and moved out there . . .
I'm sure anyone could go to anyone of many places just like there and get really busy with almost any service offered . . . and I do know there IS more demand for hi-end work, and murals . . . but I just ain't quite ready to start over building a new customer base.
Anyway . . . in the end, I guess it IS about location-location-location.
posted
I'm in one of the places where it's gotten totally crazy. I could never afford to buy the house I own today. In 1995 I paid $157,000 for this 4 bedroom tract home built in 1964. It has a nice ocean view but other than that its nothing special. I've spent maybe $30,000 renovating it over the last two years and am about ready to put it on the market for $750,000 maybe more. Tennesee is sounding pretty good! Or Arizona or Oregon... It's getting too crowded around here anyway. I don't know what these people do who are buying homes in this area today. Their mortgage payment is more than I make.
-------------------- Chuck Peterson Designs San Diego, CA Posts: 1050 | From: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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It's completely insane. My dad's 4 bedroom house on 1/4 acre back in NJ went for $200K, in CA it would have been $900K.
The house we looked at to buy last year in a suburb of Cincinnati on a HUGE lot, 5 bedrooms, 3 bathroom, full finished basement with a complete in law apt. was $259K. In Northern California where we used to live it would have been over a million.
The house across the street from us sold last winter for $379K, nothing special, a few years old, no pool, about 1800 sq ft, 1/5 acre lot, 3 bedrooms, 2 bath with a tiny nothing kitchen. No basement, no attic, not even a coat closet to store anything.
Are the salaries that much more out here? A bit but not enough to make up for the housing prices. There are a lot of people around here with interest-only, adjustable rate mortgages who are going to be in a lot of trouble if the housing boom goes bust.
Funny story I thought of when you mentioned Tennessee...I remember being out on a date (decades ago!) with this successful musician, driving around in his 100k+ sports car. We were talking about some rough family stuff that he was going through and he looked at me and said - Screw it, how 'bout if we just sell this car and go buy a huge house with a bunch of land somewhere out in someplace like Tennessee?!
Last I heard, he'd hit bottom and was living in a crappy condo someplace. Oh well...
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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real estate is going mental around here too...more and more stuff is getting developed and houses are now going for 300k+(just a cape)on a small lot...you'd basically get a dump for 200k...glad we bought this land and built when we did...a decent house with views get a million or more. interesting...wonder what the future brings?
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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When you have ordinary people carrying $500,000 mortgages on ordinary houses, the attitude becomes, hey, what's another $60,000 for a Mercedes? People who have not lived here for lots of years carry lots of debt. Vic G
-------------------- Victor Georgiou Danville, CA , USA Posts: 1746 | From: Danville, CA , USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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"wonder what the future brings" I think we are possibly looking at a repeat of the 80's when a lot of people got caught in upside down mortgages. Too many adjustable rate deals. I'm also seeing something that I thought would never surface again...125% mortgages. A young couple buying an average house around here ($350-$450K), two cars at $35K and a load of student and credit card debt is playing a dangerous game, and there are a lot of them. Another sign of the heated market that I'm seeing again is speculators desperate for land. My folks have a cottage on a large chunk of land with frontage in N.H. and they are getting a letter a month from someone wanting to buy it. All the signs point to a bubble, but as long as interest remain low it'll probably not burst. A couple point bump in interest, higher fuel, or other pressure could pop it.
People in California have this saying, and I've seen it in action:
"Can't afford it? Finance it!"
I see a lot of it here where I am.
Californians drive to town in their $60k H2, pulling a $500,000 speed boat, and stay at their $350,000 vacation home which *used* to sell for $75k 5 years ago. Calis and speculation are driving housing prices here through the roof, there's an exodus of locals because they can't afford to stay here.
I'm certain they're all doing it on credit and are two payments from bankruptcy, in the name of keeping up with their neighbors.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I live in a village of the state capital here in New Hampshire. Housing prices are mental!!! My neighbor just sold their house for $175,000. Let me assure you, this is NOTHING special! It's about 800 square feet that has had nothing dones to it in the last 10 years. It needs to be totally gutted to the studs, a great starter home, but I could not (and still can't) belive $175,000 for it!
Another neighbor has family in Florida and they are thinking or relocating, they have a house similar in size as us, a tad smaller, they met with a real estate agent and they were told they could get about $249,900 for it.
It just ain't right, and it's not going to last, but folks around here have this crazy idea that things are just great.
[ June 12, 2005, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Michael Berry ]
-------------------- Mike Berry New England Posts: 534 | From: New England | Registered: Jan 2002
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A lot of interest only loans, I would guess.
If I owned property in California, I would seriosly consider selling it and moving to some place that has reasonably priced homes before the real estate market crashes in those areas.
My Neice, a Veterinarian, pays $2,800,00 per month for an efficiency apt.....rediculous.
-------------------- Rove Gratz Gratz Signs 342 Walden Station Drive Macon, GA 31216 rovegratz@aol.com Home Page: http://rove-342.tripod.com Posts: 861 | From: Macon, GA 31216 | Registered: Jan 2004
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What we're seeing, of course is Supply & Demand. Land is in limited supply, and demand is unlimited, as people continue to breed like insects. What mystifies me is Where does the supply of money come from. What do these functionaries do to earn so much? Is there something else I can NOT buy? I may not starve the monster, but there's no good in feeding it.
This affluent sprawl is eating up almost everywhere. Open land (with some privacy) is disappearing, and the resulting suburbs are spawning more suburbs. The newer homes always cost more: BUT, they get bought.
This has been going on in USA pretty much uninterrupted for 60 years. That makes more than one generation who have never seen a national economy go bust. Maybe this one doesn't do that anymore. That would be good, but meanwhile things are getting crowded and expensive. But maybe the rules are changed in this New World Order so that when everybody has to fight for air, everybody wins. Videbimus.
-------------------- Bruce Williams Lexington KY Posts: 945 | From: Lexington, KY, USA | Registered: Mar 1999
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We just sat down and figured out the property values here... You could buy the whole town for about $87,000. That's for 15 properties with homes on them.
Ours is a 4 bedroom, 2 story with a developed basement and attached garage. If we were to sell we woud probably be able to get between $5000 and $8000.
Obviously we won't be moving...
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Lot of those home wre average priced just a few years ago. Within 5 yrs they jumped to the stratosphere.
ITs called a Bubble. The housing market is doing the ever enlarging BUBBLE in some areas.
Its goona burst. It cannot go on. Its impossible. And, its showing sign of the breaking point in some areas already. The bubble is driven by those who buy and sell quickly. When thy reach the limit to the credit it will end. Unfortunatly, the bubble takes a life of its own when the average joe jumps in and fuels this bubble. The house trading makes it all work. On the day the credit limits are met is the day it will break. Remembe the .COM bubble? lots of ppl made millions. Lots more went broke. Same thing.
A number of people will come out ok. They are the ones who did not fall into the moving game and kept their modest payments and the house theyve owned for years. Si Allen is one for example.. PAid like 50 grand for his house now worth about 800 grand
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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My understanding is that the entire is being fueled by speculation. People can get ARM's that have a payment so low it doesn't even cover the interest. In my area we've seen the average home price go from under $200K to almost $400K in the last two years.
The money is available from those who were smart enough to get out of the stock market before 2001.
It's called the "bigger fool theory". People are betting that they can buy high and sell higher. With inflationary trends set off by fuel prices rippling through the economy, the Fed will continue raising interest rates and at some point the lenders will make adjustments to the ARM's. That is when the bubble will burst.
As with most market trends, the current trend is exaggerated. When the bubble bursts, it will be equally exaggerated. Just as when the stock market crashed in 2001 and values dropped to less than 20% of what they had been.
-------------------- Fred Weiss Allied Computer Graphics, Inc. 4620 Lake Worth Road Lake Worth, FL 33463 561 649-6300 allcompu@allcompu.com Posts: 427 | From: Lake Worth, Florida | Registered: Feb 2003
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The housing market, especially in Queensland, has gone thru the roof! And the "bubble" does not look like bursting for a while.
I was lucky to find this place 6 years ago and "stole" it for $120,000. A nice 3 bedroom house on 1/2 acre within 10 minutes of the town centre. Large shed and workshop. Fronts onto a large park with another park at the back and another entry to the back road.
Took out a short term mortgage to buy it. Paying it off at a higher rate than required. Owe less than $40g on it already. Current valuation $300G plus!!!!!!!!
My 1/4 acre back lawn is now worth what I paid for the whole place originally! I can split it off, sell it, or develop it myself. It will take 5 condos worth $200g each at the moment. I know because a neighbour has done it already.
posted
bearing in mind the US$ or aus$ rates compared with the GBP£, you lot have it easy !!!
trust me, just look at london house prices,
a lock up garage measuring 16ft x 8ft (external), and in which i couldnt even park my Cuda, recently went for £56,000, thats about $100,000 US !!
3 storey town houses in chelsea, kensington and other areas of central London go anywhere from £1m to £13m+, average wage here is supposedly £38k per year, the majority of jobs, such as postman, teacher, policeman etc etc etc are no more than 25k, and most unskilled jobs are well below £20k !
even in the smaller towns you'll be looking at £150k+ for a mundane 3 bed house with a tiny back garden and n off street parking !
like i say think yourselves lucky, i rent a 2 bed aprtment in a rural village, at a subsidised rate of £300 pm, privately rented it would cost about £600pm, there is no way that i could currently afford to live around here and buy, all the properties within 1/2hr of a train station are being bought by commuters on city wages, i guess its similar all over, but US and Aus house prices, in relation to income, are a bargain !!
[ June 12, 2005, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Hugh Potter ]
posted
Whether or not this is a "bubble" in this area is anybody's guess. Interest rates are staying low, demand is still high and supply is still low. Its really a different situation than in the early 90's when the values dropped. Sure, a lot of people have borrowed too much. Especially those with adjustable mortgages could end up in trouble. I've been planning on moving to a less populated area regardless of property values so for me its a big bonus. I have actually become more interested in real estate than in sign making lately. I'll buy a fixer house wherever I move to. If prices go up, I'll sell and make a profit. If they don't I'll just stay put. I won't lose because I'm not borrowing hoping for a gain. Its mainly a home to live in, an investment second. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next year or two. I've been to London and New York and the "overinflated" prices here look like a bargain compared to there.
-------------------- Chuck Peterson Designs San Diego, CA Posts: 1050 | From: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm about to rush off to do some Sunday work, so I didn't read other replies, but I can speak to the idea of owning a $700,000.00 house.
My house is a very basic 1,000 sq. ft. 3 BR house & I may not be able to sell it for $700K yet.. but $650 for sure... do I look like a rich guy? NO! how can I afford it? 2 reasons... 1. it only cost $300K 3 years ago, 2. I also have a 500 sq. ft. cottage which my wife & I live in & we rent out the house which pays for 80% of our mortgage. I don't know what minumum wage is, but I pay me help $13/hour & sell 4x8's for $500 minimum. 3 years ago $300K seemed really high... but I'm sure glad I went for it. I don't know how hard it is to move a house from Tennessee to California is... but I know it's easier then moving it here
posted
i don't see the bubble bursting here...things will level out but the property values aren't going to drop like in the late 80's(unless of course they double again in a short period of time)....if you average things out over almost 20 years we are pretty much where we were back then at the height of it. i don't know anyone borrowing 125%...can't even understand why a bank would allow it unless the borrower had some other substantial assets. i just refinanced for the 4th time in 4 years...got a 1/8 lower than b4 and taking out some equity to pay for some of my impulsive business debt...lol! if the rates drop again...i'll refi again...what do i care??? i've gone from 8.38 to 5.75 fixed...it doesn't cost me a dime...they come to my door for the closing...works for me.(lendingtree.com) i think as long as people can pay their bills...have more assets than liability...& plan for retirement...they should be fine. "diversify" is one lesson i learned the hard way...i rode that dot com pony up and down...bareback. but i must say EBAY has been a great stock...not that they didn't get hit a few months back but it had quite a nice run over the years...surviving the 2000-01 fall. now its the pharmaceuticals takin a hit...i had a stock that i bought for about 4.00/share...has been hanging in the mid twenties for about a year...well i wasn't paying attention for 2 days....viagra causes blindness...ouch! its about $5 now. oh well...easy come easy go.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I think your locale has a lot to do with what you charge for your signs and what you get charged for your materials. Obviously, Doug has to pay a lot in shipping costs when it comes to ordering materials, probably double or more than what most of us pay. His cost of living is higher too. So, his prices should be higher than most. Now compare Doug's overhead to Sheila's. They both can make the same wage and (in theroy) pay the same for materials, but Sheila should be able to make a lower cost sign. As for the real estate market in general, check out this story... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8175152/
Havin' fun
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Boy it does my heart good to see some of my buds on here doing very well and making GOOD investments. Years ago, our CEO of Signs Now told us that the sign business was a good business to make money "from". He explained the process of *leverage* and it all made sence. We started moving in that direction and today we own 4 houses, including our "vacation" house ($240K) near a future resort. The value goes up almost a grand a week; that's better than working!!
If and when the bubble does burst I think it will show up in Florida first. Bradenton, FL had the highest property resale increase last year (almost 50%). As long as the fed keeps the interest rate low(ish) and the economy is reasonably good, people should be able to create a LOT of wealth with little more than good credit. THE only way I will buy a house is if I have equity going into the deal; you can not count on getting a higher price when you sell so you'd better make your money up front.
You'll probably never get rich in the sign business but if you keep your credit good you can make good investments and wind up rich (or at least have a secure future.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Here in Victoria it's about the same as most bigger cities. Lots of new houses being built, most of them are larger (2000-3000 sq ft plus), and most of them will contain an illegal suite, (mortgage helper). Average price around is $450K. We live on 2 heavily treed acres, 3000 sq ft with a seperate shop, probably around $550K. That's just nuts I think. On the flip side we only owe less than 15% of the value of the house, and at an interest rate of 3.2% (variable) we have no complaints. Thought about cashing in and buying up some little prairie town....lol
-------------------- "Are we having fun yet?" Peter Schuttinga DZines Sign Studio 1617 Millstream rd Victoria BC V9B-6G4 Posts: 521 | From: Victoria BC | Registered: Mar 2002
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Refinanced in 1990 to buy an extra 1/4 acre and build a shop..$30,000 at 8%
Paid off in 2000...(not as tough)
Mortgage free...
Current appraised value $150K...
Gonna live here till we fully retire (2 or 3 years?)..might be worth $200K by then???
Whatever happens..we have a free place to live if we want to.
Not the same numbers as a lot of you are mentioning but the price increases are kinda relative. And I am happy!!!!!!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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