posted
This season has been one thing after another, it seems. Business hasn't been bad, but not setting the world on fire, either. A couple of things specifically:
This has been a banner year for being handed really bad artwork. Not just the usual bland, unimaginative crap, but really awful, bag-over-the-head dogs. Awhile back I posted one of the abortions I was asked to reproduce (the one for the barbershop, which I know you've been trying to forget ever since). There have been others, just too, too painful to post, nightmares from the fertile dung-heap of design-school dropout imaginations, sold to gullible and clearly blind customers, who use them for all their print advertising for the season - which makes them utterly immune to reason with on making changes - then call the sign shop, where it becomes my sorry task to immortalize these horror shows for their storefronts. My only consolation for crawling into this gutter is the money, but it doesn't get any easier to have to work with some of this crap.
It's also been the year for "hurry up and wait." Such as in waiting for approvals for town entry signs, only to find that no one sought site permits (I ranted about this last week) or the client that keeps promising that the deposit check "is in the mail, just go ahead and start on the signs" (in your dreams, pal...) or the signs for the landscape company guy who has you waiting til 7 pm to pick up his signs, but doesn't show, apologizes profusely when called, says "I'll be right over" ..... (these signs have now been here for over a year !)
I shouldn't complain, really. All in all I'm doing fine... but I can't help feeling like it could be so much better if the world would just shut up and do as I say.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
spoken like a true OCD person with delusions of grandure and a slight napolian fixation.....hehehehehehehehe look at the up side, summer is almost over and you got all the SNOW, SLUSH, COLD, ICE, WIND comin........
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I feel your pain, brother. Especially the part about, "hurry up and wait." I've been put into orbit waiting, and I'm not sure I'll ever touch ground. Of course everybody needs a sketch since we can just whip it out via-the-puter. Then it gets scrutinized by "the committee" in which case you get put on permanent hold.
Well I can put folks on hold too, which has been my answer to it all. When the guy calls with a "when can you do it?" -- no sketch needed, no price needed, just get after it--I'm Johnny-on-the-spot, and they get to go to the front of the list and the others get to see what it's like to be put on hold.
But this year has been the worse I've seen, it's caused my drinkin' to go up. Just kidding ( no e-mails necessary.)
[ August 23, 2004, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Bill Diaz ]
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
cam..dude...i hear your pain...summer has been stressful, busy, and thankfully short. i'm so sick of stupid people...for the love of god, why do these idiots continue to breed??? i've had my new truck 3 days and some stupid **** has already christened my bumper(hit and run of course)...at least i won't worry about getting the first dent. cheer up though...things could always be worse. well i'm off to letter a truck after hours...no stupid people to contend with.
[ August 30, 2004, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I know what it's like to grit teeth working with bad art, but it's all how you look at it.
I have a few customers that came with dreadful logos that they cherish and I can't convince them otherwise. I manage to get away with some minor tweeking at times, but for the most part, they prefer no changes. I've only tried for 11 years.
No matter, they can keep them. No one else would want them anyway. There's an upside to everything in life it seems.
posted
Things are the same the world over. Don't let it get you down. Just keep thinkin of the good days when three or four big cheques arrive the same day in the post. I know ultimately after 20 years at this, that's what keeps me going
-------------------- Kevin Gaffney Artistik Signs Kinnegad County Westmeath Ireland 044-75187 kevingaffney@eircom.net Posts: 628 | From: Ireland | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Hahahahaaa...don'tcha love it when after 6 months, someone from the Committee calls and says "We have approved your design, can we have the sign on Friday?"
"Sure, no problem, BUT it will be a few Fridays down the road!"
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8827 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I was to take the summer off from regular work to finish our shop... then our Edmonton job was delayed six weeks. But no fear we are working on the shop now.
I have four major jobs in limbo right now - enough work to last two plus years... Janis is worrying that we won't have enough work this winter... and I'm worrying that everyone will say yes at once.
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote: ...guy who has you waiting til 7 pm to pick up his signs, but doesn't show, apologizes profusely when called, says "I'll be right over" ..... (these signs have now been here for over a year !)
I had a 6 month storage fiasco with at least 3 "I'll be right over's". (I think I made the mistake, in a desperate effort to get paid, & said "store it as long as you want... just come & pay me!"... I figured he needed the sign so never guessed it would sit that long)
I did get paid 5 months ago but I finally decided to call & get angry enough about storing it that I wouldn't expect to ever see more work from them & still... no pick-up.
So last Monday I left a voice mail that I'd mail them $40 for the $400 4x8 sign I was going to cut up & paint over for my other jobs if it wasn't picked up by the end of the week. That got me another "be right over" but I managed to get out the door at 5:31 the minute he was late (thats had to be a first )
He finally cleared out his sign the next morning... but not till after he asked if I could drill a few holes. "Yeah sure, hang out in the parking lot a half hour while I finish my design consultation.. & I'll get right to it... unless maybe you have a drill at home?" Loser!
[ August 24, 2004, 02:52 AM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
posted
Old Pee, wtf is a "napolian"? Were you trying to spell "Napoleon", which was the guy in France, or "Neapolitan" which is either a native of Naples, Italy or a variety of ice cream.
I just tell myself, when I've had a bad day, it could be worse. I could be you.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
We're week six into a steelworker strike that has brought the local economy to a complete standstill. This is a one industry town that wouldn't exist if not for the mines. There is NO other industry within 500 km. no logging, no farming, nada... I had to lay off 3 people and another 3 are working 30hr weeks... no end in sight, lets just say that "Times is Tuff". Cash flow, for now, is okay, my receivables at the start of this thing were high, but crunch will happen within 3 months. For the first time in a long time I have some time on my hands, and while I do have a number of projects I could be working on (website, catalogue) I'm finding it hard to get motivated and accomplish much... I find I'm more productive when I'm buried in work.
Anyway that's enough whining from me... This is Cam's thread
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
posted
Dan, I relate to the dreaded "all the jobs coming in at once" syndrome. I call the customers to jog their starting date, to no avail. Another phenomenon is not being able to start jobs until the local Boro releases permits after their monthly meeting. Customers waiting weeks for approval and then they want the signs quickly after the Boro meeting. My summer: Starve... Feed... Starve... Starve... Starve... Gorge... Collapse. (still waiting for the gorge part, might skip right to collapse)
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
cam, at least i DONT HAVE OCD,you just proved that with your last post...and yes its the guy from france....who saw only things his way....see where it got him. as for being me...naaaaa you could never be this relaxed...hahahahahahahaha
[ August 24, 2004, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Si! Exactly!! They ALWAYS do this . . . . they are in SUCH a hurry for the proposal/art-work/specs, so you basically get it to them pretty quick and they are always larger, more involved jobs . . .
Then you wait to hear back . . .2 weeks . . . nothin'.
So, you call to follow-up and the story is: "Well, we just had to put it on hold for now . . . ." meaning, they thought you were gonna do it a lOT cheaper . . . they gotta re-boot the budget . . ..
THEN, 3 months later, out-of-the-blue: "We're ready for the sign(s) so go ahead and start and we'll get you a down-payment by the end of the week when everything will be ready to install . . . right??"
. . oh YEH. I been sittin' here twiddlin' my thumbs for THREE solid MONTHS just HOPIN' you'd call TODAY.
It must aggrevate 'em a little too when I say . . "Now, who is this??? . . . And WHAT job was that?? Oh yeh . .. uh, hold on while I DIG it out of the PAST quotes file . . . "
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I have been lucky to have a busy summer full of interesting challenges, as well as a growing number of clients who are willing to let me do the designing. I have had several referrals and also just some darn nice people walk through my door. I got a "no questions asked" cash deposit from a lawyer today. I only had to deal with 1 committee so far too! My only frustration has been being so far away from Stevo! Love....Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I just got the ok to deliver four signs that I designed , produced and stored for two years for my village. Between obtaining permits from county and state, the highway dept has dropped the ball several times. They finally installed the first frame (backwards) and had to stop because the proper state permits weren't obtained. I just recieved delivery of the crown moulding for the top of the signs (a local "artisan" insisted on donating to the cause). Last August I sent a letter to all the local businesses that I had raised funds from for this project, apoligizing for the hold ups and telling them that the signs were finished and waiting for installation. The highway dept insisted on installing the signs for insurance purposes.
-------------------- Terry Baird Baird Signs 3484 West Lake Rd. Canandaigua, NY 14424 Posts: 790 | From: Canandaigua, New York | Registered: Dec 2002
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You know you are on my top ten list of designers so what I say hopefully will be taken with that in mind.
You don't need to take crummy art, sob stories, and less respect than you deserve from the people that YOU CHOOSE DO BUSINESS WITH. (I don't know how to be emphatic in a post without looking as though I'm screaming , sorry).
We all have the choice of who we do business with and under what circumstances. The key is to have a prosperity mentality (there are lots of other good customers out there)and not a poverty one (what if no one else comes in for a while).
Here are some rules to do business by:
If something doesn't seem right about a customer ditch them before you waste more time on them.
Always, always get 50% down before you do anything other than your initial consultation meeting.
On your proposals, add in your payment terms that you charge late fees to invoices paid after a certain time that keeps going up.
On your proposals, add in a line that you charge storage fees after a certain time that keeps going up and that signs may be disposed of after a certain amount of time.
On your proposals, add in a line that for the quotation you are giving them they must supply you with a usable electronic file or an additional charge to clean up artwork will be neccessary.
Suggest to them that art for print work very often doesn't make for good signs. Readability issues, etc.
Your time is just as important as anyone else's. Be honest with your customers about their image. It is your duty to make them look good and you are the professional, your opinion counts. Good customers will appreciate you for it and bad ones will go away.
It is your business and you get to set the rules. If it is not in your nature to deal with this side of the business get someone who is. I never deal with any of these issues anymore, as I have people that are superb at it, and let me concentrate on what I want to do.
With great respect,
Chip
-------------------- Chip & Marilyn Carter 414 S. St. Pierre St. Broussard, LA 70518 Posts: 32 | From: Sanibel, FL | Registered: Mar 2000
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Everyone needs reminding sometimes, of how to regain control of their business and their lives. I've allowed a few things to frustrate me lately, including the issues of being asked to reproduce ineffective and unprofessional artwork. In all of these cases I've charged plenty for the signs; which only partly compensates for the dissatisfaction of producing visually substandard work. That's my choice, and I have to accept responsibility for it.
On the other hand, I'm proud to be able to say that I set the standards for how business is conducted in my shop: I don't allow myself to be bullied in regards to pricing or scheduling, I don't take jobs I don't want or deal with customers who are irrational or make unreasonable demands, I work sane hours that do not interfere with my nights or weekends, and I make a decent living doing it.
In other words, every day is a good day... but some days are better than others.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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. . oh YEH. I been sittin' here twiddlin' my thumbs for THREE solid MONTHS just HOPIN' you'd call TODAY. 
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