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Last night while we were at Bill and Jane’s spinin yarn as Bill put it...we had talked about something that I wanted to bring up here...actually more than one thing...but only one at a time.
I know of two sign painters in my area that in my opinion are two of the best traditional sign painters you could find.
The first one of them some of you here know but many probably don’t. He is Glenn Avery...Avery Sign Co. Rockford, Il. I had the good fortune of working for and learning from him. He is undoubtedly one of the best people a person could ever work for. That was one of the hardest things I had ever done was quitting working for him to go on my own. Those of you that know him or have meet him more than likely know what I am talking about. Aside from being a really good person he is a very talented artist/designer.
The second one...Roger Foss...Foss Signs...Beloit, Wi. He is truly one of the best old school sign painters I think you’ll ever find. His design/layout/use of color is second to none. I also was very lucky to learn a great deal from Roger when I was just getting in this biz and today I’m very proud to call him one of my best friends. I doubt if anyone here knows of him...your loss!
When we were talking about this last night...the thought occurred to me that there are probably many very talented sign people out there that the rest of the world hasn’t had the blessing of knowin or the opportunity of seein their stuff. So I wanted to start this thread and have some of ya tell us about someone ya know or knew that the rest of us would have been lucky to meet.
Bring on the stories...Please....Jeff
P.S. Bill the other guy I was tryin to think of last night was Pat Finley(sp)
-------------------- Jeff's Lettering Lisa,Luke,Dara, and Jeff Spradling 5742 Shattuck Rd. Belvidere, Il. 61008 815-544-0167
Surviving another day. Posts: 626 | From: Belvidere, IL USA | Registered: Jul 2000
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Ron Collier. I hired him in 1980 and moved him from Panama City, Florida to Dallas. Another sign painter, John Minter, who had moved to Dallas from Macon, Georgia, recommended Ron to me.
Ron knew Chester Cunningham well and had worked with him. In the pre vinyl days, Blue Bird Corporation, the school bus manufacturer, used to bring Ron to their plant to letter batches of school buses before they were sent to the various school districts.
Ron was incredible in design and layout. All the jobs he did, even if they were “For Sale by Owner” signs, were works of art. Every letter he created was crisp and seemed to be perfectly proportioned. His scripts were among the most beautiful I have seen.
I used to watch him for hours, mesmerized by his abilities. Perhaps that is why I never learned to hand letter, I already had the best sign painter I had ever laid eyes on working for me. I just concentrated on the neon, plastic, metal and wood since the painting end was covered. Ron was also a very good Gold leaf man and portrait painter.
His health hasn’t allowed him to paint for quite a few years but his family and I remain close friends.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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My shop was next to Emmette Morelli's shop while I was in Vagas in the late 80's, he and I used to shoot the sh-t whenever we got time. I striped his car and he did my sign for me, I picked the colors. He was a great short time friend as I myself never spend to many years in one place.
I been here in Grants Pass for around 7 years and am good friends with Jerry MAthel, he's an ol'Gilding dude and sign painter but yet dabbles in Vinyl as well. We dine out on Sundays at the China Hut, both eating the Seniors #3. Jerry directs at times when I get stumped and I know we help out each other when its needed.
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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An unknown and now gone signpainter I once know of was Flo Mills AKA Annie Green Springs from Shaky Town (L,A, CAL.) She was the orginal designer of the Mudflap girl. She had once stripped a car for Clark Cable, Clark was buying the vehicle for Carol Lumbard. She was the one who got me hooked on the big rigs.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3814 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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Lou Alden. He was a long time staple in Vermont and had a style you could spot in an instant. Although I'd never met him, a friend once told me Lou had 3 kinds of lettering...plain, simple and his. Lou did a lot of logging and chipping company trucks up this way, many are still driving around today. His style was staright forward, but distinctive in it's own way.
Peter "Len" Baker. Len lived four houses down from me and was the first sign painter I'd ever met. He was REALLY old school, didn't really talk shop much and when I first started my shop, was not one to share tips with anyone. As the years passed, Len and I spoke less frequently. As my business grew, Len was heading into retirement and worked less because of health issues. His hands would shake a bit, but never when he was painting. Len and I never really saw things eye to eye on a lot of things, but there was always an unspoken respect between us as far as sign painting went. The day Len moved out of town, he dropped of his tool box, with hundreds of brushes in it, a bag with gold leaf, paper stomps, pounce wheels, and tools that he'd had for dozens of years, and all his lettering books he'd collected. It was a passing of a torch and I've never forgotten it. "You just keep painting." was all he said.
There's all kinds of Letterheads out there. They just never knew to call themselves by that name. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Two guys from the East Coast that had a BIG influence on a bunch of painters but who rarely get mentioned are Robert "Cos" Cosgrove and Dennis Smith. I never met Dennis, but have admired his work for years. Cos and I grew up together and he is the one that got me started in the business. His distintive script influenced many of the "Jersey Boys". Dennis Smith's work on race cars was simply beautiful.. NOBODY ever did prettier numbers then this guy, NOBODY.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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I grew up in Southwest Detroit and the local signwriter was a fellow named Georke, never knew is first name. My dad had various businesses and would hire Georke from time to time. Direct layout and letter fast. I still use his gothic "R". Georke was stereotypical drunk signwriter, he always had a 10+ year old Caddy, he broke out the back window to load his ladders and the trunk held paints. He was a terrible example of a Sign Man so the idea of really earning a living as a signwriter was tainted. Had to see others, in high school (while studying Fine Art) I saw Al Grand's work Downtown Detroit and bikes striped by Yosemite Sam. And all the striped trucks, there was a certain style that I saw alot. Well after more time I moved to the Upper Pennisula of Michigan to the family hometown and that is where I met the guy who lettered and striped all those trucks I'd seen growing up. Carl Malmquist. In 1976 Carl was retired for over ten years and had sold his shop and moved to his place on the the water. Carl letterd everthing around here for 30 years. He let me hang over him and watch and learn. I had been making and painting signs for extra cash since 15 years of age, but now I really learned some things. The most important was that a person could earn a good living and get some things out of life. A few years went by and Carl told I had to go somewhere that there was enough work to learn the trade. So I did. Every summer we always came back to Cedarville and one of the first things was to go find Carl. And you would think that it was the greatest moment of his life, he was always so thrilled and a happy to see me. I always stayed in touch duing the year and would send him pictures of work. Had some stuff published and even a magazine cover and would send Carl copies. Went on to California and worked in the Scenery business and would let Carl know when and what TV shows or movies to watch to see signs often in "his" style. Carl was in Chicago and Detoit and started out painting Showcards, the original ones used between acts in Vaudeville Theatre. Fast and pretty he told me. I continue to letter or rather reletter antique wood boats, Carl put his signature on the boats, so when I repaint them I always sign them "Grenier after Malmquist" he would have approved. Carl was a great influence, he painted until he couldn't paint anymore he was about 94 when he was finished. In California I met Rick Glawson but that is another story. John
-------------------- John and Diana Grenier Up North Studio Les Cheneaux Islands Art Gallery P.O. Box 83 Hessel, MI 49745 906-322-2886 www.lescheneauxislandsartgallery.com Posts: 50 | From: Hessel, MI (Eastern U.P.) | Registered: Apr 2003
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What fascinating reading...this is DEFINATELY one that will be printed out and saved! Keep 'em comin'!! (Great idea, Jeff!)
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Wayne Springer in Central Illinois rings a bell. He's the old style sign painter who has a definite style. You can spot his work and say, "that's a Springer."
Wayne is probably most famous for his pinstriping of semis. His work appears all over the midwest and he has had a huge influence on stripers. His style has changed very little over the years and that has its advantages and disadvantages, but for someone who doesn't like surprises and wants to know what they're getting, he would surely be a possibility.
I always wanted to travel the country and do a book on famous stripers and letterers of big rigs, because their names travel with truckers and can sometimes reach legendary status. Wayne Springer would surely be in the book.
He is said to have traveled years ago to surrounding communities and demand that there would be enough work to make it worth his while. When he would get there--the trucks, cars and bikes would be lined up and he would go from one to the next and reportedly make a mountain of money. I'm not talking 2 lines down the side of a car. I'm talking stripes upon stripes. He was supposedly so fast, he was done before he even started. I would put him in his late 60's or early 70's. He's a nice guy too.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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John Kelvin, from Adelaide, NSW, he worked in Vancouver, B.C. in the mid-sixties til...consumate signwriter!
Jim Bosley, what a brush! and all around nice man too. A Vancouver native, retired.
John Lennig / SignRider
-------------------- John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts 5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada bigtopya@hotmail.com 604.451.0006 Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001
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this thread has inspired me in a little different way, I have had the opportunity to meet so many amazing people in this industry when I was peddling brushes (hated carting around that brush box shop to shop and having to handwrite receipts....) and one shot, but the inspiration that I got from this thread is this, just think of all the people that have influenced all of us when we were starting out and shared tricks of the trade that we now use everyday without a thought, I will be a little more receptive the next time someone approaches me and wants to look over my shoulder to see how I do things while trying to learn our craft, I think how many times I discarded a resume from someone with no experience but loved art and needed a chance...I'm sure we all have, and I wonder how many amazing artists or potentially amazing people we have all passed by, we all started with no experience until we created an opportunity or where given one.
-------------------- Dan Streicher Slidell, LA Posts: 445 | From: Slidell, LA | Registered: Feb 2004
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There are several: first probably was 'Ol Man Bartels, never knew his firt name, he was just "Mister Bartels, and his kid, Dick . . A little shop on one of the main streets here, never was closed. Had a Tablet on the board, you came in, left a message . . they'd call you back. If they were'nt out on a wall someplace, they'd be lettering Pepsi Trucks in the alley beside the shop. The Ol' Man was a Maestro with a brush . . First time I ever saw a tracing liner work . . Amazing. . usta go there and watch him for hours when I could, I was about 12-13 and he'd tell you anything you wanted to know. I think he planted the seed . . I just wish I'd known what to ask . . .
Then there was Don "Curly" Cox, Signpainter at Camp Roberts, CA. Wotta hand with a quill, Sketch it . . paint it! and after a while it rubbed off! He could play a hell of a fiddle too! Whatta talent. I never learned to play the fiddle tho . .
And Tom Stratton . . RIP, Tom, and thanks. He taught me to PINSTRIPE after I'd learned to pinstripe! And there's others, but they're famous!
That's why I teach . . It has to be passed on! Any Idiot can weed vinyl!
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John Hemminghouse. Although John is retired from lettering these day's, he still amazes me with his carvings. There is so many things over the years, even before I was in this business, that I learned from him. He has known me longer than I have known myself. It's the little things that I have picked up from him that helps.. Things like Kerning, and positive and negative space. When it comes to imagination and artistic ability, either you have it or you don't. It's how we couple that with the message we are trying to convey in a 2 second time span. John told me that, "2 seconds is all you got, if it takes more than that, it's a waste of your time, and customers money". He also told me one time "A Defeated politician is a Bad Debt". words to remember there. Later on, john quit doing banners, he simply hated a temporary sign. Customers think that banners should be cheap, and really, the only difrence between a banner and a sign is the substrate, and we all know the price diffrence of a decent banner, and a sheet of MDO, so why let banners go cheap ? The other day he was talking to me about how amazed he was that people are marking there business with banners... And even more amazed that sign makers don't try to talk them out of it. "A rock solid business should have a Rock solid Sign, a temporary business should have a temporary sign" Towered the end of John's sign campain before retirement, he did break down a purchase at the time " State of the art" 12 inch perf cutter, it did about 8 difrent fonts and that's it.. He did not really like it.. "Now I have a Vinyl Bill". Although he did use the Paint Mask on the machine for multiple signs from time to time. But I think he prefered the pounce pattern. I have a world of respect for this man.. I only hope I can learn the simple things that made him the best in our area.. I don't have any of his work to display, but here is one of his carvings.. this on sat in the Governors Mansion here in Indiana for a while.. one of Johns carvings..
-------------------- Leonard Sappington lenopam@verizon.net Posts: 123 | From: Clinton, Indiana | Registered: Mar 2004
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OK Joey, who were the two old guys at Emmette's, besides you and me and Bob Harper, both tall and graying, had their own flasks and one had a large elaborate two bottle affair. They were fast card writers and always pulling out Chester Cunningham's kit to admire.
My entries are all Colorado painters...Jerry Albright, great teacher and held classes for the earliest Letterheads. John Ohnumus of course. John Rycraft an Ohnumus apprentice and great gilder. Fred and Clarence McBirney, two card writers who had a 25 or so man shop, second floor near the theatres in Denver and gave my Dad his first job. The Alden Brothers, never knew their name but many of the best worked their including Ohnimus and Ted Brunskill. Frederick Brunskill, Ted's dad, book author and skilled gilder pre-1900. Willie Creel, prolific hand lettering and gilding all over the front range through the 60's. Earl Stiegelmeyer, Ohnimus apprentice, sign junk collector, billboard painter and gilder, also was at both '85 and'95 meets in Denver. My uncle, Ray Moore who inspired me to go back to the business after a stint in teaching. And obviously my Dad, Howard.
-------------------- Kent Smith Smith Sign Studio P.O.Box 2385, Estes Park, CO 80517-2385 kent@smithsignstudio.com Posts: 1025 | From: Estes Park, CO | Registered: Nov 1998
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There were two painters here in Canon that inspired me one who Recently past away was Nate Knite. I remember growing up on our campground and Nate would come out every year and freshen up our signs. If I knew then I would be doing this I would have paid more attention. After I returned from living in Arizona I met Nate again while he was painting signs for the Royal Gorge and we would talk and BS. I regret I never got to know him real well but from the times talking with him he was a great person. Now we just Landed the Contract for doing all the signs for the Gorge and I hope I am worthy to follow in his path. The other sign painter is KC Evans we talk on occasion he does fantastic Old west signs and pictorials. http://www.signsandgoods.com Hopefully someday I will get to know him better.
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Kent, the only time I seem to remember coming into contact with you was at Steve and Laurie Berman's business in Stony Point when I was driving that lowered black 65 barracuda. I moved out of Vegas and into Haverstraw N.Y. only a mile or so from Chromatic, I was a lucky guy then and got a visit from Mark Klein who was staying with the Bermans and when he heard I was in town, he drove that big friggin motorhome right to my house and stayed a week. Geez, how I miss Chromatic and ol'whats his name
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
Fred Kedder, (sp) in 1984, at Media 5 Studio's, here in Fort Myers, FL. My first experience, seeing someone put a brush to a panel, sign, whatever. I didn't know at the time, how to refer to him, but he was a 'snapper,' if I've ever seen one. I, think he had everything he owned, in that van of his. He, lived admist everything it took, to make his livin. He, sometimes slept in the shop and bathed at the sink or with a water hose, out back. He, was always movin' on, here today, gone tomorrow, staying just long enough to wear out his welcome or too tired of puttin' up with everyone elses BS. He, had a sticker on the side of his van, that read 'NO FAT CHICKS', within a circle with a strike through. Ha! Like, what chick was gonna climb into that van of his? With him, no less! He, was quite a character and always good for a laugh. I still wonder, where he's been and what he's doing now...
Cher.
[ April 14, 2004, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Cheryl Lucas ]
-------------------- Co-Host: SANDCASTLE Panel Jam 'a Dixie Letterhead Reunion' Fort Myers, Florida
Cheryl Lucas a/k/a "Shag" on mIRC Vital Signs & Graphics, Etc. Cape Coral, Florida 239-574-4713 VSignsNgraphics@aol.com Posts: 987 | From: Cape Coral, FL USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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Bob Andrews , who worked for Coe and Hartman in Winston Salem NC......He could letter a perfect Roman letter as small as 1/4" tall with a Red Sable......as well as a Large Billboard......Gold Leaf,Silver Leaf, Show Cards, Sketches etc...One of the best I have met...Learned a lot from Bob.
Then there was Reid Long of Nevlon Sign Co in Statesville NC..a "Leftie" that taught me the way to letter a flowing Script......In fact I received the best training from Reid....Silk Screen...Neon..Gold Leaf....Metal Fabrication..Spraying..etc..etc.....
Then there was Charlie Taylor of Flay Williard Neon of Winston Salem NC........who taught me the real meaning of being a "Wino Sign Painter"..... Seems every Town had one.......Charlie was born 100 years too late.....then that is another story in itself.......
-------------------- Arvil Shep' Shepherd Art by Shep' -------- " Those who dance are thought to be mad by those who cannot hear the music " Posts: 1281 | From: Mt Airy NC | Registered: Mar 2001
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Man, talk about a trip down memory lane, this post really takes me on one.
There was Howard Barnes who had a withered hand from a hunting accident but man could that guy swing a brush. He had a peculiar way of holding a mahl stick with the cripple hand and the lettering just seem to flow from his brush.
Milton Bauer, the cajun artist that taught me screen printing and a world of other skills while employed in the local TV station art dept.
Howard Wheatley,who could do 1/4" arabic style letters that look like they were typeset. He was an illustrator of technical manuals for the war effort in WW II. Whenever someone asked Howard when he would have their sign completed, his reply was, "When I get through with it." He would never let anyone watch him letter. I used to stand at a distance and watch, unknown to him.
Mickey Richard in Shreveport, La.
K.D. Hayes, West Monroe, La. (One of the best friends I ever had.) John Griffin, also in West Monroe.
Pete Dailey, a traveling snapper from Oklahoma. Pete was a "Lefty" like myself and taught me alot when I was just getting started. Pete had the first Stabilo that I ever remember seeing.
Henry Fomby, Magnolia, Ar. (Not too much of a letter artist but just adownright likeable fellow. I guess that's why he always seemed to have plenty of work.
Sam Sinclair, in his eighties and still making signs. Sam always had a good clean stroke, really crisp and clean.
The list goes on....
-------------------- Frisby Signs, Inc. El Dorado, Arkansas Posts: 902 | From: El Dorado, Arkansas, USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Gene worked at Active Ad signs here in Bloomington. He died just after the Geber Signmaker was invented. He actually got to use the very first ones.
Gene could do anything and everything. He bridged 5 unions. Sign Painter, painter, sheet metal, auto body and painting, electrician, welder, crane operation, gold leaf work.
Most of what Active Ad did was billboards. They were just about bankrupted after Lady Bird Johnson had the roadside boards choped down in the "Beautify America" campaign.
They did many murals and displays for State Farm Insurance, based here in Bloomington, also.
Gene was my mentor, but the very famous Hinie Johnson was his mentor. Hinie had regular articles in Sign Of The Times and was billed as "the Old Pro." He is featured in the American Sign Museum. The story I was told was that Hinie drew up the sketch and painted the first Stake & Shake sign, the round logo "In Sight It Must Be Right" is still used today.
Hinie's Son "Bud" was also gifted in the ways of the brush. He painted numbers on Navy Ships. After WWII he came back to Illinois and wanted to make his dad's business big, really big...so they started the billboard business. Gene Howard came on about that time as a painter and constructor.
I went to work at Active-Ad in the Mid 70's. I only seen Hinie come into the shop one time. I was painting a billboard, 10 x 40 foot metal slip/hang panel board nailed up on the shop wall. He came up and said: "I got a good brush for painting "Z's", aint much good for anything else, its in my kit." He dug his old kit out from under an old table and proceeded to show me the brush. He turned and hobbled off, into history. I never saw him again.
10 years later, Gene would be gone, the about 4 yeas ago, Bud finally joined the rest of those who now paint rainbows, and the morning sunrise and the evening sunsets.
[ April 14, 2004, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]
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Charlie Jones. Warner Robins Georgia. Jones Signs, Signs for you since "42. He died in the '70s.
Warner Robins has an Charlie Jones Businessman of the Year award named in his honor.
His shop is where I started in '62. He taught me a lot, as did Bill Meade, another part timer whose full time job was in the Silk Screen Plant on Robins AFB. We were a Commercial Shop and did everything from billboards to Silk Screen Printing, to paper signs for grocery stores.
Jones's Father ran a printing plant in Montgomery, Alabama where Charlie came up with the slogan for Nab Crackers, "Nibble a Nab for a Nickle". The slogan itself tells you how long ago that was.
S.A.Craig. We called him SOC because his name was in a script on his business card and the A looked like an O. He came to Warner Robins to visit his daughter for a few weeks in the middle '60s. He was 81 at the time he worked at Jones Signs.
He walked in the door one day and said "I came here to work while I'm in town, I need something to do and I don't want to be paid". He worked there for about a month and taught all of us a lot.
He was a great wall man and some of his work is still in good condition on the North facing walls. Not bad for 40 years old signs.
He had a trick to make large Dark green or dark blue lettering snap by outlining with black, then filling the insides with the other color and blending it into the outline. Surprising what a difference it makes from a distance.
Another trick to soften stiff lettering was to make a 45 degree stroke across all the inside corners of the letters. It works better on large lettering.
Lou Payne. I knew him in Woodbridge, Virginia. He was a stickler for detail. If you were doing Helvitica, It sure better be true to the font.
When I went to ask about a job, the first question was "Do you use a Mahl Stick?". I told him I did. He said "I don't hire anyone that don't use one".
We did a lot of large pictorials on billboards and walls.
-------------------- Rove Gratz Gratz Signs 342 Walden Station Drive Macon, GA 31216 rovegratz@aol.com Home Page: http://rove-342.tripod.com Posts: 861 | From: Macon, GA 31216 | Registered: Jan 2004
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