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I am tired of paying shop rent! I found a huge two story home, 1750 sq ft up, 1750 sq ft down. in our price range & I am prequalified.
The shop would be downstairs, about a three car garage, with an adjoining office, huge yard. The futute office is now actually a mother in law, one bedroom apartment w/ full appliances & a washer/dryer!
To my quetions. Are deliveries a problem? How is getting an occupational licence in a residential area? How are neighbors if you are working there? I will be fairly quiet, with the occasional wood working tools going. I have been homebased before, but I used a different address for my licence.
I don't even know if I can get a licence in a residential area.
I know there are a ton of you doing it.
Tips , Tricks & Info Please!!!
Cheers!
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134 Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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Buy exactly what you are looking at...OUT IN THE COUNTRY!!!
no further comment
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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Robert: I would be nervous if I were you, but I don't know your town, and I don't have a visual.
I have been doing it for 25 years. I'm in a totally residential inner city Southern neighborhood, where they got "uppity" about their historic status of the area in the last 10 years or so, and are watching me like a hawk now. I think I am in a roundabout way grandmothered in, but I feel like I have to have an extra pretty yard, artistic and other appeasing features to the property to continue to be tolerated. Fortunately that is not difficult
In other words, things may seem like you can pull it off right now, but may not stay that way. I have had employees over the years, and have had them park elsewhere so it won't show that there was more than the one I am allowed. You have to be ever vigilant, and as my alderman once told me: Your neighbors simply may not like your dog, and then find a way to close you down.
Deliveries are not a problem for me. I have a property on a busy corner, with the back yard being gravelled where there once was grass, and fenced with a big gate that is open during business hours and the UPS etc trucks just drive in and come to the back (basement) door. City priviledge license has not been a problem, they don't look at the zoning of your address.
Although I have been doing what you are considering for a long time with few problems, I have only recently decided to stop looking over my shoulder and consider myself home free in my setup.
I have tried to teach my children that once the vibe is out there of what you want to do, a good deal will come along almost all by itself more than once, and I hope to have illustrated that I really think Dave Grundy is right. If you decide to heed this advice of continuing to look further, just make sure you don't get buried in the country. Find a location with some traffic, easy to find, where calling attention to yourself with signs and (as I do) unusual visuals will bring you traffic, and where you don't have to worry about the "good"will of your neighbors having an influence on your livelyhood.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Check the zoning. If it is residential and you were renting I'd say do it, but if you are buying the place that is different. Sound like you want to buy it. Find a property that is commercial and live there that is easier route. I have served on the local zoning board here and believe me permissions to do things not zoned are nearly impossible. Be careful we are talking about your biggest investment and your trade. Our place is zoned commercial on an acre with a 1200sqft little house and a 1100sqft shop and still get grief from local officials sometimes regarding the dumbest crap. Good luck, John
-------------------- John and Diana Grenier Up North Studio Les Cheneaux Islands Art Gallery P.O. Box 83 Hessel, MI 49745 906-322-2886 www.lescheneauxislandsartgallery.com Posts: 50 | From: Hessel, MI (Eastern U.P.) | Registered: Apr 2003
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Hello,Rob Go for it,don't worry be happy. Only kidd'n. I would do it-If, the house is of the type home you can resell if thinks go bad,or you can keep & rent,lease,etc.you do not have to spend alot of money to remodel,etc.for shop. Right away,you are not the Sign Guy- you are a Lettering Artist,or whatever sounds perfessional.You can have no employees,sub.cont.Ok,have P.O.Box for all mail,personal & bus.but do have a mail box/with a real nice signboard w/your personal name[not bus.] & house no.Sign not to big not to small,maybe 30"x20" w/a real thick post on one side & a lot of im. flowers, an for sure a Gr--- O'h never mind,you know the drill your a Lettering Artist now,right. The most important thing to remember is always C.Y.A. Most any town will NOT let you have a sign bus. in a residential area. There are a hundred reasons,mainly you manufacture something,you produce a tangetable[hate that word] product. You'r a Lettering Artist now,you provide a service,just like all the other citizens that work from there homes,lawers,dr.,architects,& such. Don't have any paint or thinners in eye sight. I you want to be happy,just do it. No permits no nothing.If you file - they will come,many will come, inspectors build.,fire,health,etc. Don't panic if your already in working they can not make you vacate the building.If trouble comes any lawer will tell you,it's federal law, it's a cons. right to earn a living.Because you are a Lettering Artist performing a service. C.Y.A.check W/a lawer.I saw that one joined Letterville a few days ago. Good luck Rob, May the Power be w/you & your PC never crash.
-------------------- Kent Moss Greg Moss Signs Posts: 363 | From: Wilbraham, MA / Charleston,SC | Registered: Nov 2003
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Kent, That is the kind of info I needed. Thanks! I want to be low key in the neighborhood.
I can park six cars on the double driveway & I plan on adding a driveway off the side of the house, that will add a couple of more cars(I feel a few projects coming up) & a boat.
My licence in Collier County is for an "Artist/Faux Finisher" & signs are included in the "Artist" part, but I can't install a permanent signs or pull permits. I have few other shops do it. Depending on how big and elecrical or not. I hate installs anyway! I think I can get in with my Artist/Faux Finish licence no problem.
I've just got be best buds with the neighbors though!
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134 Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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I'm in a sort of residential area about 3 miles out of town . . . I love workin' where I live and I've learned not to "live" where I work.
My neighbors are cool with it since the building next to the house has always housed some kind of business.
If you have a lot of customers in and out and a steady stream of business related activies I would consider being out of any kind of residential area.
If I lived in a residential area, I personally would not mind if my neighbor had some kind of small home based business, it would be none of my business but if there was a constant stream of traffic and trucks in what should be a generally quiet area where kids can play, etc., I would have to question that situation.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Robert, I am a sign shop operating within our city limits, in a residential area. I have a current business licence (I pay the same as Costco up the road). I live on a dead end street in a residential area. My neighbors are wonderful, mostly elderly, but there is some kids that play in the street. There are many 'Home Based Business Rules' that I must abide by, IE: 'No retail sales from your home...that one is so silly but what it means here is that I cannot have a rack of something premade (like a rack of clothing or other stuff) for sale. I can only have up to 5 vehicles come to and from my place per day (but I can have 10 more of my friends come for coffee every day!! Hint Hint!) I must supply and extra parking spot for my customers. Deliveries have not been a problem so far...Many courier trucks, water delivery trucks, even the odd semi towing a lowbed trailer has backed into my driveway, the odd race car or van is dropped off and spends the night here....no complaints with that so far. another rule is that our hours must be within certain hours (but again, how does a neighbor know that it is not a family member or friend visiting on occassion when you meet a client at night? We are generally quiet where our neighbors are concerned. We did have one self inflicted problem when we first moved our business home 5 years ago(we have just over 3 acres and are visble and run parallel to a major highway on one side of the proerty) We parked a truck out near the highway with an excessive sign attached to the side of the truck with our business name on it. Within days we received a letter from the city insisting we move our truck as that was not allowed. A competitor complained and we had to remove the excess sign. We didn't have a problem with that as we were pushing our limits. One other rule they have here is that only one vehicle on your property can be lettered to advertise your business (we have three)...they have yet to inforce that rule and I would fight that one tooth and nail. worst case is I park two on the street. The city bylaw officers only act on complaints...so far we've been OK. We are allowed one small (max. 2 sq. ft) sign out front to identify our business...originally it had to be nailed to the front face of our house, they have let up on that rule all over town and now allow a small post with the above sign in the driveway or on the lawn. I really enjoy the freedom of working from home. I wouldn't change a thing. At first I worried that I would lose some customers because some people don't like home based...but I actually increased my bottom line (lost some, but gained some others) Good luck with your decision. I'D say 'GO FOR IT!' Sue
-------------------- Susan Banasky Source Signs Nanaimo, British Columbia sourcesigns@shaw.ca
When in need....go directly to the "Source"!
Proud Supporter of this "Knowledge Network"! Posts: 1323 | From: Nanaimo, B.C. Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
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Thanks Sue, I go to most of my customers businesses. The exception would be vehicle letering, but I could have them pull into the garage. Low key, don't **** off the neighbors! A few B-B-Q's and they would be cool, hopefully.
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134 Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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Get with the local code enforcement man to see just what you can and cannot do and by all means stay within those peramaters. Neighbors, well, you just never know. I operated a store front shop for about ten years. I had a single car Morgan building behind it that I used for lettering vehicles. When I decided to close the shop down, I looked into moving the Morgan building into the back yard here at the house. I went to the code man and got a permit and the lowdown on what I could and couldn't do ( which , by the way isn't much at all ). I had the buiding moved in and the next day I got a visit from the code man. He was laughing, seems one of the "neighbors" had filed a complaint already He had to make a few more visits over the next few weeks as this "neighbor"persisted in complaining. Mind you, I had done nothing but move the friggin building into the back yard. He took pictures to present to the city council to prove that there was NOTHING going on. I never had anymore trouble. What I am trying to say is trust no one, assume nothing and make sure you LEGAL!!!
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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In my City, I am classed under "cottage industries". That means a lot of retail sales that generates traffic is not allowed. Since nearly all my work is "on site" I never have had any real problems. The occasional truck or car in the driveway hasn't been a problem because I am blessed with good neighbors, and I don't abuse their good will.
Of course donating a few signs and banners each year, to Civic functions, goes a looooong way with the City Officials. Be sure to check what is and is not allowed.
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Rob...Can park six vehicles in driveway? That will kill your plans of a happy life before anything short of burning your scap vinyl in that nice wide driveway,it makes very thick smoke-someone told me!
More than one or two trucks or cars plus your car & the s.u.v. the Lovely wife may have. The red flags go up.The neighbors will think auto sales-auto mecanic.Neighbors near & far will check you out.
I've had my shop next to my home for 26 yrs.Knock on wood,no problems.I have 10 rm. house ,7 acres,this place was a mini horse farm,had a barn, nursery school building,that was reg.& lic. w/the state for up to 13 children,it had to have its own electric & plumbing an all,a plumbers garage & workshop.I glued the two buildings together & have a nice workshop,main floor & 2nd floor total 2,924 sq. ft. Speeking of work - I have to go do some, before I leave for Dixie.
I'll come back to Letterville w/a post about my feelings pro & con,of a homefront shop.
Best of Luck, Kent Moss
-------------------- Kent Moss Greg Moss Signs Posts: 363 | From: Wilbraham, MA / Charleston,SC | Registered: Nov 2003
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Once upon a time when we were still looking for property, I went to the city with the new proposed address and found out what was and was not allowed.
I made a few mistakes. First, I told them everything about myself and what I was planning. I had sent them so many red flags that I opted NOT to purchase that property for fear they'd know too much and be a real PITA. They said no to nearly everything I requested about.
Best thing to do is go into the city, give them the general zone area, say you don't have any place in mind but are looking and ask what's allowed. First say you do graphic design from a computer and go from there. "If I should expand and paint signs one day on the property, what are the ramifications? Customers parking? Noise? Burning?" Anything you want to know, but remember, you don't want to give them the impression you WILL do these things. Just find out what is ok, then you can assess from there if it's worth the move and the headaches. Then it's up to you if you make the move.
Then if you choose to go 'legal, become the best YES man you can be. You will know what I mean when you get to that point.
They will only know as much as you tell them, except of course, what the neighbours see. Reason everyone is making such a huge deal on neighbours is, if even one complains, you need to be prepared to uproot your entire location should they decide to make a real fuss. That's the reason behind extra property, and the more private, the better. Vehicles hidden behind trees and farther back, best bet. Better yet, vehicle parking lots behind buildings are totally unseen. Even in a tight residential zone, if you have that option, it would be alot safer than if all the vehicles are in total view.
I have a plumping customer and he's in such a zone. I don't know how he's allowed to park his vans all over the sides of the road but he does. He's debating on moving to property because of neighbour 'comments' to him at this point. He's the nicest guy on earth so no doubt that's the only reason he's been able to hang around that long in that location.
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There's a man here that does signs, his property has plenty of room, the back of the property faces alot of trees and brush, the workshop was away from any house.
But he had one neighbor that raised fits with the city over his being there. He didn't make much noise, fumes or anything, it was just KNOWING a sign shop was there that kept this neighbor uptight. He never relented, my freind had to work elsewhere.
I figure, if you're not involved, why take chances? Even if you got the perfect neighbors upon moving in, things change. Some people are just unreasonable. One of the biggest problems I see today is people that let their emotions rule their minds, instead of the other way around. You won't convince a person like that of anything.
You would always be limited somewhere or another. What about when you're schedule goofs up, you get back home late, and just as you're thinking you can get ready for bed and tomorrow, you remember that urgent job that needs the panel cut and coated NOW? Radial saw at 11:30 pm? hmmm, neighbors not like. It sounds sorta like buying an underpowered piece of equipment when you can buy the right one for the same amount of money.
I like being out in the country with like minded folks. I can pound on an anvil, make smoke, use power tools, butcher hogs, paint, weld, all sorts of stuff, and so far nobody's said a thing.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Thanks all, I get the drift. Saws would be used only during midday. I will have the room to park up to six cars for a get together, not like all of the time. It would just be my truck (tastefully & mininmally lettered) & maybe my partime salesman once in a while and an artist I have been working with parttime. My current licence reads Artist/Faux Finisher, mentions nothing about signs. I will check on what's allowed. I am more conserned about neighbors.
I plan on insulating & drywalling the work shop & also keep the garage door closed, during the noisy times.
Cheers
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134 Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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I live in a nit picky little town but never had a problem. It's nice and quiet here. Big property except for newer areas. I'm pretty sure my neighbors next door are drug dealers so they never complain for fear they'll be in trouble. And the guy across the street has more car painting going on and more junk in his backyard than would ever be allowed so he isn't complaining either.
I hate our City Administrator but for some reason he loves me and lets me get away with things that he shouldn't in regards to sign codes and such.
It basically depends on your city and/or county. Lots of research to do.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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We started in our home and outgrew it and had to move because of the problems of being home based, neighbors and such but also size. I would limit the amount of customers that come to your home, start meeting at their place to show your proposed signs (which is a benefit because you can see where and what the sign is for, and you don't have to trust customer measurements)
Instead of having customers pick up signs deliver them when you go to make sales calls or pick up materials or any other reason you have for going to town, include a reasonable fee for delivery and if they don;t want to pay it just include that time in somehting else in your quote....or eat it for keeping peace in the neighborhood.
Dont let your business creep out of the house, with ladders and scrap piled against the house and making your neighborhood ugly and commercial looking. Keep your ladders strapped to the truck instead of resting against the garage.
If you are using extra offensive odor emitting products,(read) background enamel, do it when most people are gone at work.
Explain your business to your neighbors as you may find new customers and it might be in good interest to cut a little vinyl for a birthday banner for a neighbor or cut little flames for kids to put on their bikes, make it interesting for the neighborhood so they are curious for good reasons. Also make it a benefit that oyu are at home most of the time and are watching the neighborhood (less crime, kids have a place to go in a emergency, lonely housewives have a place to uhm...visit!...maybe skip the last one) Sounds like you are on one of Floridas wonderful waterways, offer to do a SIMPLE name on a neighbors boat, make them cheerleaders for your business, word of mouth is the best way to grow a business)
Mount a small sign to your home near the front where you have a dry erase board for people who drop in when you aren't there, for letting UPS know if you need pick up, or a note for a vendor dropping materials
But try to pick up your materials versus having a delivery driver who doesnt' care about your relationships with your neighborhood zipping around, parking rudely, honking on arrival and such. Or use UPS as they also deliver to all of our homes and they are professional..most of the time.
Put a larger address on your home or have a distinctive feature that you can describe to people that are going to come to your business so that they can find your home easily without driving up and down the street slowly arousing suspicion from neighbors while trying to find you.
And on a personal note separate your business from your home ilfe, when your day is done close the door to your office, turn off the phone and have a separate life. I got so caught in it that I would actually change shoes, downstairs working / work shoes. Upstairs not working, sandals or slippers. IF you can afford it get a separate phone # for business and don't answer it outside of business hours, same with customers coming over, DO NOT LET THEM PICK UP ON YOUR FAMILY TIME, set boundaries you do not need to be available 24 hours a day.
-------------------- Dan Streicher Slidell, LA Posts: 445 | From: Slidell, LA | Registered: Feb 2004
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He had to make a few more visits over the next few weeks as this "neighbor"persisted in complaining. Mind you, I had done nothing but move the friggin building into the back yard. He took pictures to present to the city council to prove that there was NOTHING going on. I never had anymore trouble. What I am trying to say is trust no one, assume nothing and make sure you LEGAL!!!
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