I bought a roll of edge-printable SignGold, and used it today for a job, only to discover that it's thicker than the standard film - so having cut it with the usual plotter weights, it can't be properly weeded. I have small, delicate copy that is trash now.
Like it would kill someone at SignGold to put a notice on a roll that tells you this? For the money they get? What a money and time wasting pain in the f*^%#ing butt.
Oh, and any smart ass that wants to tell me I should test cut every roll, stick it where the sun don't shine.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Sorry to hear you had troubles Cam...that can be frustrating. Hope your day goes better.
I was having a bad day recently, and then I went to church and saw a kid who's face was melted from a fire. Looked like Velveeta cheese in a microwave.
Kinda put things into perspective for me. Hang in there, chalk it up to another one of those important lessons learned.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Tell you what, Chris. Spend three hours laying out and cutting a job, then take three feet of material that costs $41 an foot, and throw it in the trash. Then tell me it didn't **** you off.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Or better yet, buy the correct vinyl and then letter two 6' by 6' polycarb plastic signs in reverse lettering and have a million bubbles the next day because of outgassing. Two signs that are totally useless to me now.
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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Gerber tries to get info and product bulletins inserted into all their EDGE Ready material boxes for what you're buying. Unfortunately, many customers never get around to reading them. Case in point---LEXEDGE for the Gerber EDGE comes with a peel off liner. We get many complaints, and many rolls returned after people try to print on the liner...
Again Cam, I feel for ya! It would have been nice for SignGold to tell ya, or whoever you bought it from. I make a point of ensuring anyone buying SignGold for EDGE buys the Thremal Printable 3-mil to avoid any issues.
posted
Or... Replace your favorite digital camera that you paid $500.oo for after being destroyed in a motorcycle accident. Buy the exact same camera on ebay just two months ago to discover your new camera isn't working this morning. Call the repair center to find out they wont fix it under warrantee because you bought it from a private party. It was still in the shrink wrap, and it will cost an additional $150 to repair. Looks like I'll end up just buying another camera but it will be made by someone else this time around.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
but cam.....they know you and figured since you know most everything and never make a mistake....you wouldnt have any problems....OOPS!!! i can sympathize with ya.....never did it with sign gold....but have done same thing moving from hp vinyl(lite pressure)and then loading and cutting intermediate without resetin the blade force!!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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with edge printed materials, they ALL should come with the necessary info on the specs of cutting and printing. I buy materials from Graphic marking systems and everything I have ordered comes with the proper info pertaining to the specific material and its properties.
I have never purchase thermal sign gold, does it even have info on what setting to set it up for printing on?
[ February 05, 2004, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I know that I am gonna get crap for this. But I Edge Signgold quite a bit. Anytime I spend 250+ for a roll of vinyl, you betcha im going to do a small test cut. You would think that Signgold would put a notice inside the packing to preform a test cut though. Not looking to cause trouble, just my opinion!
-------------------- Devin Fahie Sebago Signworks Rt. 302, Raymond, Maine 207-655-6622 devin@sebagosignworks.com Posts: 96 | From: Raymond, Maine | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Like Rob suggests, test cuts are the first thing I do....even if I'm cutting off the same roll of vinyl I last used...been burned too many times by not doing it.
My plotter has a function specifically for this and I make good use of it...it takes like 15 seconds.
Here's another solution: Coburn makes a wonderful array of outdoor durable metalized vinyls including gold and silver versions of GoldLeaf, engine turn, brushed metal, etc. It cuts well, and is Edge printable....and best of all it's way cheaper than SignGold, so if you screw it up, you don't feel as if you accidentally put your lotto ticket in a shredder.
Granted it doesn't last for 20 years...but it's good stuff.
Still, I feel Cam's pain....
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Admittedly (now that I have cooled off a bit) a test cut would have been appropriate... but there was no reason whatever to think that Edge-ready SignGold has a thicker coating than regular SignGold, or that it requires a different cutting weight. I'm not a newbie, and I've cut a lot of SignGold, and thought I had a pretty good understanding of how this stuff works. A note in the box regarding this would have saved me a lot of aggravation and money - it's entirely reasonable to think that the people who market SignGold would care enough about their reputation to instruct the end user about something that significant. What, I'm the first person this has happened to? How does pi$$ing me off and having me complain in a public forum do them any favors? I shouldn't have to ruin a roll of an expensive specialty film to find this out.
And yes, hand gilding is an option - until you have a rush job, with small (less tha 1") copy in a delicate font (Bernhard Modern Bold, upper and lower case). Pardon me for being stupid enough to think this is exactly the sort of thing SignGold was supposed to be designed for.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Somedays, now matter what direction you pee in your always peeing into the wind.
oh and I NEVER test cut every roll not to mention the SAME roll everytime I use it. Only on rare occasions do I test cut, and only when its a different material than normally use.
For crying out loud Todd, how much time DO you have?
Oh and from what I heard from Cam there is no instructions for what setting in the software to set to print on sign gold on the box.
thats an area that could be improved in my opinion, I have never ede printed on it but if I did I would want that info.
Come on Brian where are ya??
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
My Roland has a button marked test. When I hit it it take less than two seconds to cut a circle within a box. Maybe your machines are not set to do this but I use mine all the time. Also blades do dull and cut differently from time to time, this is the reason I test cut.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
well Robby them little blue baby food cutters dont have no test button on them now do they? you oughta remember that lol
anyway i talked to Cam and here's how it went, he cut lettering in regular sign gold, somehow the lettering needed to be recut, all he had left was the thermal signgold, so he recut the lettering, thinking the only difference was maybe a chemically treated tedlar coating for the edge, only to find out it was actually thicker, meaning it has another layer on it.
so blade dullness wouldnt be a factor.
[ February 05, 2004, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I used to test cut alot in the begining, until I found the force needed for cast vs. calandered and add force as the blade dulls.
If I had cut a lot of Gold at 6 gms. I would feel comfy with that & wouldn't nessasarily do a test. So, Cam does have a point. He should have been warned that this is not the same material & may require more force to cut. It is not cheap stuff. Cam, maybe you can work something put with Sign Gold???
[ February 06, 2004, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: Robert Thomas ]
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134 Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
I've screwed up almost as much SignGold as I've used over the years. I test cut this stuff every time, and rarely test cut anything else. How often do you cut this stuff and have these spots on the edges where the clear adhesive pulls away from the letter? The vinyl cuts fine but the glue balls up. I'm referring to the burnished reverse stuff.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I've never worked with SignGold but I do a whole lot of test cuts.
Any time I run material through, it seems there's always some difference from the previous material I ran through, so test cutting is the only way to be sure it's going to come out right... especially when I have to deal with small copy.
I bounce back and forth between materials all the time now.. calendared, premium, polyesters, metalized, metallics, ultra metallics etc etc.. they all cut differently and I probably cut some of each every day.
I've got those little circle squares stuck all over everything.. the walls, the floor, the plotter stand, the plotter itself.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Now that you have brought this issue to the attention of the Letterville community, I'm sure that Mr. Signgold totally happy to replace your shot roll (at no cost to you of course).
posted
Bob....haha...Yeah, I am a bit paranoid when it comes to screwing vinyl up because it seems like everytime I DON'T do a test cut, I get screwed.
And I am a cheap sucker. I even have all of my scraps under my worktable from the last 8 years thinking I might need to cut something out of that little 2" square.
But boy oh boy....if it ever came to where I used that expensive Sign Gold, ( I haven't yet)you bet I would test cut it first...regardless of whether I ever had cutting experience with it before or not. All I could imagine is dollar signs flying away out the window if I didn't do everything pre-emptively possible to elimate a screwed up plot.
Now, walking in Cam's shoes I'd say you could make a case for a 2-part blame case here. Him (he should have done the test cut) and SignGold (it probably wouldn't have cost them squat to include a flourescent note indicating that the Edge version takes more pressure - - after all, it IS a VERY EXPENSIVE product and it would be a customer relations benefit to do this.)
Cam - Have you thought of calling SignGold and complaining of this oversight? If they are customer oriented, they might offer to replace, or at least split the cost of the damage and look seriously at including a warning in future shipments.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Yeah, them signgold people are rotten. Why just last week I screwed up a roll too. Yeah that's right, put me in for a couple of yards. Sorry Cam just poking fun...I hate screwing up even HP. But put me in for the class action suit. I consider you a friend so I won't use the ingnorance comment as Tim did. Hey Tim, why don't you kick him in the nuts while he is down too!
[ February 06, 2004, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Robert Larkham ]
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I use a fair amount of SignGold and haven't had a problem cutting it ...so far.
In addition to doing a test I also have one blade that I keep in a plastic box labeled "SignGold". (It is one of those extra sharp ones you sometimes get if you are lucky ) I use it only for that product.
I know this doesn't help Cam but I thought I'd throw it in as an idea that might help someone else in the future.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Hahahha....sorry guys, just trying to be diplomatic.
See what happens around here when you try to be "nice" and "sensitive"?
How would this hypothetical response have gone over to someone who is already frustrated?: Ok, quit ****in and moaning about something that was totally your fault. What, you think SignGold has to spell out the obvious in 40 different languages?
Would you throw your wife's mink coat into the washing machine? Would you use terpentine to try and get some fingerprint smudges off your plasma tv screen? Would you try and dry off your Corvette with a rag your kid used to wipe the mud off his boots?
Then test cut expensive plotter materials BEFOREhand to make sure it's gonna work.
C'mon...it's a new year...just trying to be nicer.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
a little of this topic but does the angle of the blade make a difference when cutting between HP and INT or is it the size of the letter that determines what angle blade.....just wondering cause I always have better luck with 60 degree.
-------------------- Rob Larkham Sign Techniques Inc. Chicopee, Ma Posts: 607 | From: Chester, Ma. | Registered: Apr 2002
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Cam,you didn't test cut! on $41 a foot vinyl, then blame the supplier, why that would be like arriving at a foriegn airport and getting into the first taxi you see and being taken to the meat factory when you think your going to a letterheads meet, you would not do it,just kiddin cheeers Terry
-------------------- Terry Colley The VintageSign Co 42 barrack hill Romiley Stockport Cheshire, England sk6 3az tel 0161 494 5089 terry@bullandbrush.fsnet.co.uk Posts: 210 | From: England | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
OT a little. Would it be possible to guild some enamel receptive vinyl, clear it and use low tack transfer tape? I think I read something about that in SignCraft. Seems like it would be cheaper. I usually hand guild if needed, but I could see a use for it on occasion. Sign Gold looks so thick to me and all of that edge sealing.
In my mind, hand lettering & real gold leaf become one with the surface to which it's applied & vinyls are sitting in top, if you know what I mean.
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134 Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Pardon my ignorance here, but it sounds like you all are talking about two or three different types of SignGold... ?
I had to get some (Florintine) SignGold cut by a local sign gal and got stuck with her assistant... I warned her (per the paper in the box) that she had to set the blade to cut the THICKER vinyl... she didn't and my serifs rolled and ripped and then there was the transfer tape fiasco... I some how rolled a 6" x 6" portion of the cut and weeded SignGold right up around itself. (THAT really sucked!)
BUTTTTT~ it sounds like Cam's SignGold isn't the "regular" stuff... "edge print"? Cam could you explain the difference? JUST curious here- don't want to start WW4.
The taping my mouth with calendared vinyl now.... side of the Moon
-------------------- The Moon aka: Stefenie Harris Moonlight Designs Pollock Pines, CA learnin' somethin' new every day! stefenie@comcast.net Posts: 550 | From: Pollock Pines, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Brian actually posted on January 23 that...
quote:For the next two weeks (Jan 26th - February 9th), I'll be away from my shop and office, and will not be able to address any SignGold questions or concerns
I'll bet he'll be on this topic early Tuesday though!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
Sorry for your frustration. The instruction sheet that comes packed in every box of SignGold, explains that the thermal printable material is a heavier gauge than standard SignGold.
And Yes, at $50.00 a yard, (not sure where you're getting your 41.00/ft. cost) I'd make a test cut, which is also reccommended in the instructions.
We do care about our customer base...and have very few problems. When they are brought to our attention, we address them and solve them.
I would have answered this sooner, but I've been away for a couple of weeks, as noted earlier in this thread. For future reference, all of this information is always available at www.SignGold.com, and is only a phone call away. You could have called our office, or the tech line. Instead, you opted to come here and rant and rave senslessly about the very same product that you're so quick to shoot down everytime someone inquires about it. You're the first one to suggest people hand gild versus using SignGold when the subject comes up on this board. Oddly enough, you gave us a 12 x 24" panel to use in the SignGold booth a couple years back, that seems to suggest that you LIKE SignGold products...
If you'd like to discuss this, or any other SignGold related matter Cam, I can be reached at 585-415-7496 today until 5:30, or in the Letterville Chat Room this evening from 6-10 pm.
Again, sorry about the frustration.
Brian Briskie
Posts: 465 | From: / | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Having read the entire thread through for a second time, I'd like to address a couple of the other comments made.
Ted Nesbitt, ND Graphics...you're a distributor, and should be familiar with the fact that we do indeed provide all of the required information on our instruction sheet, as well as on our website.
Bob Rochon...Our instructions sheets do indeed list print and cut recommendations. (It's downloadable at www.SignGold.com)
Devin Fahie...The instruction sheet DOES recommend a test cut.
Todd Gill...Cam understands the value of genuine gold, and the value of material durability, so perhaps THAT is why he's not using an imitation product.
W.R.Pickett...If you can't offer any assistance in Cam's situation, you're only adding anxiety. Again.
I hope none of this is misconstrued as animosity...It's just how I would have addresssed the individuals had I been present throughout the thread.
Posts: 465 | From: / | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Alright then. I'm going to take a deep breath and call myself an idiot, right here in public. In the bottom of the box, inside the folder that starts with "creating a market for Sign Gold" is a yellow sheet marked "instructions". On this it reads "Set your blade as you would for premium 2 mil vinyl. (Printable signgold requires slightly more pressure)" It also says make a test cut.
Having cut SignGold many times over the last several years, I didn't read the instructions every time, or I might have seen the "slightly more pressure".
BTW, I paid $129 for a two-yard roll of printable SignGold. For some reason I had mis-read a price on an invoice as $249, which was where I got my $41 a foot figure. My mistake, again.
Oh, and I'll be sure not to complain about materials on this forum ever again. God forbid my "ignorance should be rewarded" (not that I recall asking that it should be).
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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