posted
A building contractor told me that he heard that PT lumber is about to be banned, outlawed, or otherwise no longer available. Has anyone else heard this?
He said that wood will be treated with some type of "salt".
I would rather use some type of synthetic or plastic anyway. Wood posts are a pain.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Yes, it's true. Our local Home Builders Association news letter said it is no longer being made as of Jan. 1, 2004 and they expect all to be diminished by the end of the year. Experiments with techniques used in other countries are sort of good but the big problem seems to be the chemicals involved corrode the hardware if you don't use stainless and they are trying to make sure the builders are aware of it so they don't make houses that will fall over in a couple years!!
Fun huh!
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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I don't know all the details, but from what I understand the old treated wood used to be treated with a toxic chemical which is definately NOT a good thing. The chemical would also break down and leach into the soil or rub off on our kids as they raced around on the wooden playground equipement. The powers to be have outlawed that but are replacing it with something that is less toxic and, from what I heard, a better product. I am always suspicious till it is actually proven though. "They" told us when they took the lead out of paints that there wouldn't be a noticable difference in it's longevity! Sound like this is going to be a much safer product though. The test of time will see if it going to hold up as well.
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Hiya Wayne, From what I recall, the concern is the arsenic used in the treating and it leaching into the environment. They're now going to be using a similar product that's formulated with copper.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have been told by my supplier that we can't use deck screws in PT any more as the new chemicals will eat them! S**t! Now we're sposta use silicon bronze... Hey, I ain't buildin' a boat here guys. Just one more way to boost the production cost. Try explaining that to the customers. I mostly use cedar anyway, except for gummint stuff which specifies PT. Keep on keepin' on.
MUR
-------------------- Murray MacDonald OldTime Signs 529 Third Ave S Kenora, ON. P9N 1Y3 oldtimesigns@gokenora.com Posts: 781 | From: Kenora, ON | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Found this info online from a news source...
CCA-treated wood is preserved with arsenic and can be found in some 50 million homes across the U.S. Research shows that kids who play on it have a higher risk of developing lung and bladder cancer, although authorities insist the risk is small.
"What we found is a relatively small risk. Essentially, you're looking at numbers between 2 and 100 per million that would face an increased risk over their lifetime," said Eric Criss, of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.
Experts say kids are especially vulnerable, because the arsenic on the surface of the wood rubs off on their hands, then they place their hands in their mouths.
But even though the manufacture of new lumber has now been banned, you can still find pressure-treated wood in local home improvement stores.
Manufacturers say the current supply could last for months.
The government has some safety suggestions concerning pressure treated lumber:
--Keep food out of contact with wood, such as picnic tables. --Children playing on it should wash their hands before eating. --It should not be burned. --And wear a mask dust mask, goggles and gloves when working with it.
The ban is only for residential use. Use in commercial buildings is still allowed.
Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Yeah, I got a speck of PT sawdust in my eye once. Went to the emergency room with my eyeball expanded with fluid, popping out of the socket. It looked really bizarre. No wonder so many folks are getting cancer now. Everytime you eat something it's filled with preservatives and other chemicals, when you pump your gas you're inhaling gas fumes, as you travel down the highway you're inhaling the exhaust from the car in front of you, yout body is being bombarded by ultraviolet rays, and radio waves. Carcinogens are everywhere in everything.
I would like to find an alternative to wood posts anyway. Something that is reasonably strong, won't rot, twist, and holds paint well. Maybe aluminum?? Anyone use that?
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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The information I had last year was that the current formula used in producing pressure treated lumber could no longer be used after Jan 1 2004. In its place are two formulas. One was called a chromium copper Quat, I think and is used in Europe. The other Formula name escapes me at present. all three formulas used copper and the two newest recipes are extremely corrosive to bare steel. All hardware must be galvanized. We use some pressure treated lumber at this park and only time will tell how corrosive the newer products are.
-------------------- Ron Costa Sign and Design 28 Ingerson Road Jefferson, NH 0358 Posts: 620 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2002
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For several years now, I have used Aluminum square tube instead of wood. It costs about the same as Redwood and there is much less labor involved in finishing, plus I can buy all kinds of cool post caps from King Supply. I never liked PT for sign posts because it is so bad about warping.
Another advantage of Aluminum is that the weed eaters don't make your sign look like Beaver snacks in a couple of years.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5095 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Their catalogue has loads of steel and Aluminum decorative elements that can be incorporated into signs. They ship same day and the prices are reasonable.
I called them a while back to extoll the virtues of being a Letterville merchant but I guess they haven't yet made a decision on that.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5095 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Let's see, It was asbestos siding, then lead based paint, and some others that I can't remember. The PT lumber is being banned, but it's a bunch of malarky. You would have to eat a couple of 2X10's 12 ft long to get enough arsenic to kill you. The new stuff that was to replace PT lumber is already being recalled because it has more problems that PT lumber. Of course whatever replaces it will definitely cost more.
-------------------- Robert Richards Southern Ad Specialties Carrollton, GA 770-830-1501 sasga2000@a0l.com Posts: 138 | From: Carrollton, GA | Registered: Sep 2002
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We're not talking abour ingesting enough to kill you instantly. I think there is something to it. Why do you think cancer is so common these days? Because of our modern chemicals, toxic waste and energy.
I'll bet everyone who responded to this post has had someone close to you to die or at least get cancer. Right off the top of my head? My Father, Grandmother, Wife's Grandmother and we all could think of many other friends, family and acquaintances who have gotten it.
Hey, if the EPA or whoever, bans something like asbestos, lead paint, leaded gasoline, certain pesticides, arsenic in PT lumber or anything else, I'm all for it.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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One reason cancer is more prevalent today is because people are living much longer and are not dying from the ailments of the past. You have to die from something, and cancer has risen to the top(second only to heart disease). People live to be an average of 15 years older today than they did only 40 years ago. Not too many die from T.B. or typhoid, polio or even the flu anymore. There are quite a few dangers that exist out there, but I think that we have a better understanding of cancer (and what causes it) than we've ever had before (the main reason for materials being removed from the market). Did you know that the dust from MDF (medium density fiberboard) is a class "C" carcinogenic? The dust from phenolic material is too. I won't use either!
[ February 05, 2004, 01:29 AM: Message edited by: Tim Whitcher ]
-------------------- Tim Whitcher Adrian, MI Posts: 1546 | From: Adrian, MI | Registered: Mar 1999
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My Doctor wants to do a full blood work up on me soon, I am also requesting to be tested for lead & arsenic just in case. I'll bet there is a little of both from 25+ years in the biz.
[ February 05, 2004, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: Robert Thomas ]
-------------------- Rob Thomas 3410 Ketcham Ct Beautiful Springs FL 34134 Posts: 965 | From: Bonita Springs, Florida USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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I'm liking my welded steel and concrete work better all the time!
-dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8740 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Tim, How can you attribute the prevalence of cancer to extended longevity when so many little kids are getting cancer? Ever heard of St. Jude's Children's Hospital. Sometimes babies are even born with it.
Dan, Just don' be welding any galvanized steel. It gives off a toxic gas. You can also get concrete poisoning from skin contact. I have gotten it and it's no fun.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Wayne, Cancer in children used to go undiagnosed. In the late 1800's, childhood deaths were not the exception, they were the norm a family of eight typically only saw five or six to age 20. They didn't even have a word for lukemia then, didn't know what it was. Ever go to an old cemetery and see all the children's headstones? Not quite the same, today. I've heard the argument both ways, but tend to believe things are getting better, not worse.
-------------------- Tim Whitcher Adrian, MI Posts: 1546 | From: Adrian, MI | Registered: Mar 1999
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to h*** with all this new crap...I WANT MY CREASOTE back....best stuff in the world to protect wood. as a kid i used to paint posts and fences with it..and iam still alive!!!! Creosote oil is the name generally applied to the fraction of the coal tar distillate which boils between 200 and 300 C. (see COAL TAR). It is a greenish-yellow fluorescent liquid, usually containing phenol, cresol, naphthalene, anthracene, pyridine, quinoline, acridine and other substances. Its chief use is for the preservation of timber.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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well i was smart enough to move to florida....heheheheheh
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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In a recent update it has now been discovered that breathing , as well as persistent touching of anything , may cause cancer and a number of other issues related to poor health. To reduce the inevitable, debilitating effects of breathing and touching things try to limit the amount of time you spend on these activities each day.
Just about everything you do, eat, touch, and breath....will kill you! It all depends on how much! What you are reading about is the product of people with too much time on their hands and new, much more sensitive instruments! They ALWAYS exagetate some new danger....hoping to get a big Govenment grat to study it....ever notice...after they get their grant....thery never publish anything about that new found danger?
Over the years, I have worked with, led paints, solvents, biphenyls, silicas, asbestos, TDI, poisons, explosives, and just about everything that should have killed me (if you believe all the Hoopela) ! AND... I'm still here!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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your dead really....NOW STOP MOVING!!!!!!!!!!!HAHAHAHAHAH
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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When I'm told that what I'm doing is going to lead to my premature demise, I just give my standard response..... Being born is a Fatal Disease! LOL!
posted
I had an uncle out your way in Cali who designed and fabricated trade show displays, many of which involved screen printing, hazardous material handling and a number of other dangerous chemicals that were used. As a result of the long term exposure, he suffer from damaged sinuses an eventually died from cancer.
Granted, this was many years ago, but the risks he took were because of the lack of knowledge about how dangerous the materials were to him. Thankfully, in the 20 years since then, we get better information these days like MSDS sheets, safety warnings, and better handling instructions.
Si, I don't diagree that there are some studies being done that are full of doom and gloom, (a few of them are ridiculous in fact) but almost anything taken to excess can be harmful. Heck, eat enough Twinkies and you're liable to die from something in them.
Better to know that not know if something poses a health risk. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Ray...Twinkies and Hostess Fruit pies should make ya live ferever! They are indestructable and last forever! In Fact it is rumored that they found a perfectly edible Hostess Fruit Pie and Twinkie in King Tut's Tomb!
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Worked with a guy a few years back and he had lots of little sayings for every occasion. This instance he'd use:
'it's not what you eat that's going to kill you, but what's eating you that's going to kill you'
so dont eat the posts, and don't worry about the ones you've already ingested.
I believe it's a good thing when the powers to be evaluate the effects of these lovely substances we use to 'enrich' out lives, and remove those deemed to be unnessary health risks. Most of these toxins we come in contact with may never affect the majority of us to any great extend, but there are those few that are greatly affected by them. The unfortunate part is we will never know until it is too late who is affected by what. My old boss's wife died from a reaction to peanut oil. You just never know.
This was no knee jerk re-action, as these studies have been ongoing for many years. 12 years ago when we helped buy and install a playground set for a local park and the warnings were out about certain pressure treated woods. You'll notice a lot of the newer playgrounds are once again made from metals. There's a price to pay to be environmentally sound, but this is a lot less then what you'd be willing to pay to reverse what may ail you or a loved one. You can pay for prevention, but you can't buy back your health.
[ February 10, 2004, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Peter Schuttinga ]
-------------------- "Are we having fun yet?" Peter Schuttinga DZines Sign Studio 1617 Millstream rd Victoria BC V9B-6G4 Posts: 521 | From: Victoria BC | Registered: Mar 2002
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The January 2004 issue of Fine Homebuilding magazine has a very good article about the "new" treated woods, and the fasteners required to hold it together. It's corrosive to common steel and light duty galvanized hardware.
The article is also available online at finehomebuilding.com, no registration required.
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