posted
I am on the Library Board of Trustees and we are having a problem. One side of our building has sidewalks with ramps. They are extremely tempting to the skateboarders. The problem with that is they come shooting down the ramp into traffic or pedestrians walking out of the front doors. We have posted signs saying "No Skatboarders...yadayada" but they steal the signs! The first sign was screwed into a brick wall. They brought a screwdriver and took it. The next sign, Bill decided if he screwed a first sign into the wall and then riveted a sign on top of it, they would have to drill the rivets to get it out. They must have used a crow bar to remove it that time because the chipped up the brick pretty bad getting it out. NOW what?! I suggested electrifying it like in my farm days when we had an electric fence. (JUST kidding!) I just don't know what else to do. If we GLUE it up there with Gorilla Glue in addition to the screws, do you think that might work? I've tried talking to the kids, nicely at first and more firmly later, but to no avail... Any suggestions? (Funny or real!)
[ April 27, 2005, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Jane Diaz ]
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
| IP: Logged |
I'd invest in a video camera and reinstall the sign, catch the little pukes steeling it and then go to the police. Any energy directed at keeping the sign from being stolen can be directed to a more productive channel.
They obviously have not stopped skate boarding, so having a sign or not is not the issue. Stopping the destructive, trespassing vandals is.
posted
HAd them here. The ownde sent a letter to teh city police department stating that all skatboarders are banned from this property. Please help enforce this.
Then called the police whenever they started hanging around. Took a couple of weeks.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
We tried the police thing...and there are a couple problems there. The police say there is nothing they can do if there are no signs posted. Thus the signs. When the signs were there the police came down and confiscated their board and required parents to come to the police station to pick the boards up. Well, then you have irate parents who are mad at the LIBRARY! Never mind that their little darlings are terrorizing the little old ladies from across the street that try to walk up to the library...it's OUR fault for picking on their babies for "just trying to have fun". The other thing is, I really would like those kids to LIKE the library. I was there one day when they were tearing around and I went out and talked with them. I told them I understand that they enjoy skateboarding and I wish the town had a skate park for them, but it is dangerous here and I am afraid they are going to run into someone. I suggested that they did research in the library to find out how to convince the city to build a skate park. They looked at me like I had a second head growing out of my body! The next time I went out to "discuss" it with them, I threaten them with the police and their answer was "There's no SIGN here that says we can't." They are smart enough to know if they keep taking the sign down, the police have no recourse against them. AARRRGGGHHH!!!! See why I want to electrify the sign!
[ April 27, 2005, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Jane Diaz ]
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Jane the only way to truly enforce it is to have a securtiy guard if the police don't come around much actually catch some of them and prosecute them fully. If you can do that the word will spread amongst them. If you don't the problem WILL persist. I've done signs for various malls, and San Diego is known for this problem. You can have certain hardware installed on rails, curbs, benches so they don't "rail slide, olie" or any other cool little tricks to damage the property. The malls that had success were the ones who invested time in catching a few and spending the time to prosecute and sue them financially. It's time consuming but the only way to do it. Most skateboarders carry tools in their backpacks to remove signs and create skate obstacles. Busting one with tools will help to show intent and intent to damage property. (I was a former skateboarder so I know what I'm talking about )
Oh and I'm sure your finding that they used the "no skating" signs for ramps
[ April 27, 2005, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Erik Gastelum ]
posted
If there is a place to put posts in the ground, I would use 2 3/8" thick 4" x 4" box tube steel posts, with a 3/8" or 1/2" thick plate steel sign welded on the front. The letters would be cut through the plate with a plasma cutter.
That way, you could easily spray or roll a coat of white over it after they spray paint it. The cut letters would show up as dark against the white.
I've seen in gas stations where they cut grooves into the surface of the concrete to give better traction for pedestrians. I wonder if something like that would make the ride annoying enough for them to move on.
I've seen "undulations" installed in some neighborhoods where fast cars were a problem. They were gradual enough for low riders to pass over without damage, but would scrape a car going too fast. Maybe some sort of bumps that wouldn't interfere with wheelchairs, but would make scateboarding unpleasant.
It's a cause and effect relationship, they stay because they like it. Take that away, somehow.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have a couple of customers who have bought fake video cameras and installed them along with the 24hr video surveillance signs I make for them and had their vandalism stop almost completely. They both bought the fake cams from a web site,do a search, one even has a red light that flashes now n then
-------------------- Mark Perkins Performance Signs & Graphics Eunice, Louisiana "The heart of Cajun Country" Posts: 506 | From: Eunice Louisiana 70535 | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
If they're just skating straight down the ramps maybe install some steel grating over it, like a storm drain grate. It shouldn't interfere with wheelchairs but the grate spacing would be a wicked wake-up call to any skater that rolls over it.
Are these kids giants or what? Has anyone tried installing a sign on the wall that's 10 or more feet above the ground and completely out of reach?
What about a sign with studs on the back that get sunk into holes in the wall filled with mortar or concrete? No visible fasteners, no glue to break free, they couldnt even pry it out with a crowbar, especially not if the sign is 1/4" steel plate.
Or if the exterior wall is masonry, grab a sandblaster and blast the sign right into the wall!
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
get a local monument company to make a small "tombstone" with a flat face that can be cut into the concrete at the foot of the ramp with "no skate boards" or "foot traffic only" sandblasted into it, and make it flush with the concrete. let them steal that.
-------------------- Dave Utter D-utterguy on chat Sign Designs Beardstown, Il. signdesigns@casscomm.com Posts: 777 | From: beardstown, illinois, usa | Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Dont ya miss the old days when old lady whatkins would just go out and blodgen the poor little saps with her solid mahogany cane and officer O'Malley would back her up by dragging the wee little tikes home so thier father could whip em with a strap till they couldnt sit down
[ April 27, 2005, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yeah Bob, or like my mother did, grab 'em by the shoulders and SHAKE 'em 'till their eyeballs rolled around in their head, all the while telling them how she felt.
Anybody else's mom do that???
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have stenciled many a "No Skateboarding" messages on sidewalks/curbs etc.,....I have not seen em' defaced or altered ,...they just ride right over em',...the problem lies beyond the signage.
-------------------- Rich Stebbing RichSigns Rohnert Park CA 707-795-5588 Posts: 755 | From: Rohnert Park, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Rich is right. Cities like Asheville have built skate parks to deal with this issue. The one over there is sponsored by Food Lion. A Security Guard seems to work at the Library here. They will just shift to a new location thats all.
How about Letting them skateboard when the Library is closed? These kind of solutions require looking outside of the box. JUst my two cents
-------------------- Roger DiNofa Hattiesburg, MS Posts: 147 | From: Hattiesburg, MS | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Why not install the sign 10' up from grade. They would have to bring a ladder to take it down. And if you use PL glue they wont be able to rip the sign down even with a crow bar.
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here in Kalispell Montana we had a similar situation and the city and local buisnesses built a nice skatepark. This worked great and we even draw more visitors that have kids who skateboard. These kids need to go somewhere and I'd rather see them skating(even at the library) than out using drugs,or worse. I was a "bad" kid until I started skateboarding and then I was too busy skating to cause trouble. I would bet that the stolen signs are in a special place on a bedroom wall. This could be a form of flattery if you look at it right. C&B
posted
In the sue-happy world we live in, just letting them skateboard there when the library is closed will work until some little darling does something stupid, hurts himself & the 'too lazy to work, looking for a reason to sue someone so I can sit on my fat butt watching springer' parents decide it's the library's fault (couldn't possibly be that their darlings were trespassing and doing something stupid).
Do those grippy strips make wheelchairs more difficult to operate? If not, I'd put those down on the ramps, or the mini speed bump things and put the signs up high enough that they'll have to bring a ladder.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
It sounds like the kids think it's a game. They have decided that if the sign isn't there, they can do what they want. There have been a number of ideas given to make signs that are difficult to remove.
Once the sign is there, I think it's important to show that prosecution isn't an idle threat. It seems that so far the kids haven't been faced with any punishment that had any "teeth" to it. The cops need to be called when the kids show up with skateboards, and I would also take the time to catch them in the act of defacing or removing the signs, then bust them. It might not stop all of them, but it would make them think twice.
The skate park is a good idea, but that isn't the library's responsibility. It isn't the job of the adult population to keep kids entertained just so they don't tear the world apart. I also think that keeping out of trouble is a kid's own responsibility.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Most seriuos skateboarders don't go home crying to their parents. they usually patch themselves up and get right back out there. It's not the libraries responsibilitie but the library and other adults could give the kids support and encouragement to push for a park in their communities.
Right up the highway from Me a mother had an indoor park made in a big steel building just to keep her kid and his friends off the streets. Now its a thriving business. My nephew goes there all the time and he's far from being a punk.
If there is no place for them to ride at all and everyone wants to slap the cuffs on them yeah they're going to break the law because you've given them no choices.
Bigger crimes are being committed while the police are dealing with skateboarders. I personally would rather see a sign get torn down than another methlab go unnoticed to produce enough junk to to fuel the idle kids that have nothing better to do and the crimes get worse.
I guess prisons are easier to build than parks.
-------------------- Roger DiNofa Hattiesburg, MS Posts: 147 | From: Hattiesburg, MS | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
Signs 10ft or higher off the ground so its hard for them to steal, the cops didnt tell you how hight he signs had to be posted just that they had to be there yanno, its all about perception of the law. put em up high and persecute to the fullest extent. No more Idle threats!!
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Have you ever meet up with someone that thinks it is his/her job to say NO?
I side with the skateboarders ask them to ride safely and after busy hours at the library. 25 years ago when I skated I never once ran anyone over or sued anyone for falling down. I know that kids with nothing to channel their energy into will cause way more problems. Some of us if we think way back to when we where kids can still remember the trouble we caused. Jane you said to the kids that they should spend their time in the library trying to learn how to lobby the city for a park. Maybe the kids that looked at you, could tell that you truly where not sincere. There are a lot of successful parks in cities all over, perhaps it is time you stepped up to the plate and you helped them lobby the city. Once the city gets the park most of your skaters will move to the new skate park to play. This would be a win for you and the skaters.
-------------------- Steve Eisenreich Dezine Signs PO BOX 6052 Stn Forces Cold Lake, Alberta T9M 2C5 Posts: 774 | From: Cold Lake | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
There are some great suggestions here....some we have already considered too. The speed bump idea won't fly because those are something for people to trip over as they walk over them. Our library is right across the street from a huge nursing home/shelter living facility so we have a bunch of elderly people. Some of them tend to shuffle when they walk and that would be a great place to trip. Installing something flush right in the sidewalk, although a good idea, would be pretty costly. And Steve, as far as my lack of sincerity, that was not the case. I sort of condensed the whole story, but I have gone out on several occasions and talked nicely with different groups of kids...sometime the same group returns and then I get more firm. "I've seen you here before and we've told you...." That is what is happening with the library staff too. Add to that they are vandalizing our building by ripping off pieces of it to steal the signs! I really like kids! I have three boys of my own and used to teach k-12 art at a public and the parochial school and I WOULD like to see them pursue a skate park. However, I don't feel it is MY duty to pursue it if these kids are unwilling to do something about it themselves. If they showed the least bit of interest in trying to solve the problem by even saying, "What do we need to do?" I would help them get to the right people to see if we could make it happen. Instead they are rude and sullen. Doesn't take me long to walk away from that..... We will continue to look into a solution. Thank you all for your help! There are some workable solutions here I can take to the next board meeting. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again for you help!
[ April 30, 2005, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: Jane Diaz ]
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
| IP: Logged |
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
) 
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic