I've got a small box truck to do in vinyl. This thing is ate up with rivits. The rows are centered on 16" the rivits are centered on 2"!!!!! It's got pretty extensive copy, most of it in pretty thin lettering. I figured the best and easiest way to do this one would be letter a 4x9 sheet of aluminum and attach it to the box. Here's where I need some advice. I'm sure somebody out there has done something like this. I was figuring on drilling and screwing into the rivit heads. Am I barking up the wrong tree here?
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Remove them if they have slots for a driver. Remove them only in the place you apply vinyl.
No slots? Other wise use a good cast vinyl and use some light heat around each rivet. Teh good vinyl will shrink back slightly and form around the head. Do it dry.. Wet around rivets is an endless pain.
Posted by jimmy chatham (Member # 525) on :
If you are going to pop rivet it on be sure and use stainless steel rivets.
Posted by Bruce Evans (Member # 44) on :
I would never attempt it that way. Jusy apply over those rivets like they aren't even there and then go back with a propane torch and burn them down. I'd use some A8 or 3M on rivets though. I'd also apply some fuzzy end of some velcrow to one edge of your squegee. Use this fuzzy side of the squegee while going over the rivets. It will create less friction and cause the squegee to glide over the rivets more easily.
[ May 27, 2003, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Evans ]
Posted by Mark Perkins (Member # 296) on :
George, do the job with 3M ControlTac, much better over rivets than normal high performance vinyl. I have best luck with a rivet brush.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
George...Knowing what you do best..PAINT IT!
Or do what yer thinking but just screw the panel to the box and forget about trying to locate the rivits. When was the last time you tried to center a drill bit on a domed rivit?
I'd do it over the rivits myself...Using half or a quarter squeeegie so ya don't bump into the rivit "next door". I prefer cheap ones for that..they are kinda waxy and don't scratch the vinyl.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Dave, good point about centering on the domed rivit, but if you screw it down directly to the truck it's gonna distort like crazy, maybe I can figure out the spacing and location of the holes, drill the sign and then silicone some spacers on the backside. There is absolutley no way I would attempt to paint OR apply 3" letters on the sides of this thing. I've never seen a truck with this many rivits.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Once again the obvious has been overlooked George...
Give the deposit back and run like hell! Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
About 20 years ago, SignCraft had a cartoon by Bob Parsons on a similar subject--corrugations. His answer was to get a hammer and pound them all down flat. He said it was still a drag to letter but you felt so much better!
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Q-Tips are wonderful things!!!
Place and apply the Vinyl like it was a flat surface. Heat treat any areas around the rivets and squeegee tight or rivet brush around the domes.
Underscore.. a quarter moon with an Exacto blade
Q-Tip....3M edge seal to each rivet cut.... It will take some time but stops airpocket lifting. And will last the length of the Vinyl Warranty. Posted by Ed Ryall (Member # 3221) on :
SORRY, I posted just what you where thinking about spacers. (garden hose rubber washers?)
[ May 27, 2003, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Ed Ryall ]
Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :
hey george, i agree with monte.
it can be done with vinyl over multiple rivets, but i get what is called a "degree of difficulty" charge, and it is not cheap!
i have done this type job before so i estimate my time carefully.
if the customer thinks my price is not in line, then i move on to the next job.
good luck bubba,
mark
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
paint it geo.....simplest way round the problem!!!! my #8 quill is the best rivit brush i ever seen!!!!!!! if you must vinyl....wash the rivits with a good brush and wipe each one with A/E reducer. main thing with rivits if they aint clean vinyl wont stick!!!!
Posted by Jeff Ogden (Member # 3184) on :
If the layout would fit on a 4x8' or less panel, then I would go with .080 alum with baked enamel finish, then screw that to truck every foot or so using self tapping screws. You could put something like a black faucet washer behind it. or they sell other rummer-grommet looking things in the hardware section that has stuff for chair legs........maybe they're called bumpers. Be sure to put your screws along the same lines as the rivets. but not in them (vertically). I think I used the rubber spacers to get the sign off the rivets because without them things could get noisy inside the truck with the sign vibrating in the breeze................
I have put aluminum on trailers before using .063 or .040, but then later always wished I had used the heavier .080......the other stuff always has a wavy look showing or just plain looks floppy.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
George, On a good warm day in the sun?.....vinyl it Cool day in the shade?....paint it
Use HP cast vinyl. Center the squeegee over each rivet as you work down and press down firmly. Go back with a pin and put several holes around each rivet. Use a rivet brush, squeegee or torpedo tool to conform the vinyl to the sides of the rivet. Hit each one with a heat gun or propane torch...but don't torch it too close or too long.
But, I would probably rather mask and paint it.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Thanks guys. This is not a done neal, I'm gonna hit them with a price that I hope runs them off.
I think a lot of you are missing the point about doing the lettering on a 4x8 panel. Being less of a hassle is one but it's more for legibility.There are just too many rivits involved here and to much copy with letters in a lightweight typestyle for it to look good either painetd or vinyl going over the rivits
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Are the rivets painted the same color of the panels? If they are, vinyl or paint is the best way to go, if the rivets are not painted with as many as you are talking and if if the stroke is that thin (1/4"-3/4" thick) you might have a legibility problem, then a panel might be the answer, or maybe a Scotchprint panel.
Posted by GARY CULY (Member # 3130) on :
hell yea ,screwit on george...mayby after you get a couple in it you can take a snall ball peen and tap where the rivetds are to locate them for drilli ng then screw er on ...hip
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
I'm with Jeff - heavier gague panel so it won't dimple on you George. I'd probably spec it for 3mil Dibond (just under $100/sheet in these parts), and put spacers under it. It will stay amazingly flat. In the end, the truth is that after 20,000 unwashed miles and a few trips down narow, tree lined alleys, nobody is even going to care if you used .030 alum and its dimpled to hell. It'll only bother you. Give 'em the option and take their money.
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Dibond is a good alternative, George, but I don't think that film installataion on corregation and rivets can easily be explained verbally. Both Rosemary and Latigo grew up in this industry and I've not seen anyone who can handle massive appliques on rivets with corregation like those two. I mean 9'x60' trailers, full coverage. An hour or two with them would send you on your way ready to do it, but I don't believe I could easily talk you through it. Want ticket info to Kalispell? heh...........
k31
Posted by pierre (Member # 1462) on :
Actually I found a smaller one (relatively) the kids did with rivets and corregation, and in a perfectly registered two color overlay. Try THAT one. heh........
George, use the 3M COMPLY vinyl! Ask for the one with the "grid pattern". This is the greatest stuff since oxygen! It must be applied DRY. It isn't available in too many colors, but it is the cat's @$$! Trust me. You will be amazed. You'll be looking for more rivets to attack, before you are done. Unbeleivable product. It costs a little more, but worth it's weight in gold! Good luck.
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