I did a little 3'x 5'sign on MDO with the same Vinyl I have used for years..only difference is I didn't want to pay $50 for a gallon of purple paint so I went to Walmart and got a quart of exterior semi gloss. Yesterday I thought all is well the vinyl stuck to the board no problems. I stuck it in the back of my truck last night and this morning it was slimy and you could literally wipe the vinyl off with the palm of your hand. ???? has anyone experienced this? I thought switching to latex to coat boards was going to be a smooth transition uuugh!!!
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
I never use latex on a sign which will have vinyl applied. (especially Wallyworld paint) It can have silicone and such in it to help it be a better house paint but it is not a good choice for signs. It's a hard lesson to learn, but wouldn't you have been better off spending the $50? Love....Jill
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Walmart paint is made by Glidden. Behr got the highest rating from Consumer Reports.
I've had some serious issues with Sherwin-Williams paint fading badly after just a couple years.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Been using latex paint and vinyl for 20 years with no problems...but, only 100% acrylic and high performance vinyl. Cheap is cheap.
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
One thing you should know, and I heard this from the paint dept manager at Walmart, who said: To keep prices low, they don't get the best grade of paint. Glidden is good paint, but Walmart doesn't buy the "good" grade of Glidden paint.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
That's true. Consumer Reports confirms that referring to Walmart's low price on paint as a false economy.
Posted by john randall (Member # 2450) on :
Where do you buy acrylic based latex paint I called my supplier in houston this morning and gold him my story and he doesnt carry or has ever heard of latex bulletin colors
Posted by john randall (Member # 2450) on :
Where do you buy acrylic based latex paint I called my supplier in houston this morning and gold him my story and he doesnt carry or has ever heard of latex bulletin colors
Posted by Bob Sauls (Member # 11321) on :
I have had good results with SW. SuperPaint and Resilliance. I prefer satin finish personally. My vinyls have all stuck but as Ray stated use the high performance vinyl.
I do not think you are going to find to many waterbourne bullitin colors out there. Ronan has waterbased products that I have been impressed with but why not use the SW. for backgrounds? Be mindfull that with deep colors you'll need to keep some deep gray tinted primers to help cover.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Ronan makes a nice line of water-based enamels, I've not used them as a sign background but they say you can on this page. I love their Speednamel line.
Posted by Rodger MacMunn (Member # 4316) on :
John, I believe Raymond uses Porter AcriShield, as do I. I've never had a failure with it, although I don't use gloss much & vinyl doesn't stick well to the other sheens. There's a learning curve to using acrylics but you generally don't have to worry about your paint failing in a few months like 1-shot.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Bob, I've been using SW's SuperPaint. Obviously you get more "sun" in Florida than I do, so I'm wondering what you're doing that would make the paint retain its colorfastness.
My workflow has been to put down a coat of primer and then 2 top coats of the SuperPaint straight from the can.
I did a carved sign for a client about 5 years ago. The background was painted a dark Hunter Green using SW's SuperPaint. Two years later, the dark green had turned into a pale seafoam green.
I never used to have any issues with SW except in the last 5 years.
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
FWIW,
Kent Smith says to never use paint from any big box store.
Joe,
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
[ February 22, 2013, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Joe Cieslowski ]
Posted by john randall (Member # 2450) on :
I have used SW industrial enamel and it fades too quickly us it's very expensive
Posted by john randall (Member # 2450) on :
I'm just sticking with Ronan it lays like a sheet of glass. I just didnt use it this time b/c I needed a very specific color of purple and when I hand mix it it always turns out too blue violet.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
3' x 5' you woulda dun better if you bought a couple cans of KRYLON and painted it. latex paint is WATER BASED...how long does it take for water to evaporate??? a lot longer then an petroleum based reducer/vehicle for oil based paints. using a water based paint in a high humidity area(florida coast)will always take longer to dry completely. heck, my floor in my shop will get completely wet sometimes......JUST FROM HUMIDITY in the air. being in florida since 1981, i dont do much with latex paint for these reasons. i prefer AUTOMOTIVE PAINT for any sign backgrounds. NEVER A FAILURE!!!! and it lasts like the paint on you vehicle)))) but then again, i cant spray on high humidity days, if i do the paint will haze. so i wait for bright sunshine days, spray the paint and let it bake a while in the sun....))))
Posted by Len Mort (Member # 7030) on :
Automotive paint with hardners for signs here, also available in all bulletin color match just give them the numbers such as bright red 104 (Outdoor advertising standards)
Posted by john randall (Member # 2450) on :
Do you spray or roll?
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
automotive paint for best finish.......needs to be sprayed.
Posted by Len Mort (Member # 7030) on :
Spray HVLP gun, works great hardly any over spray. Must wear proper breathing apparatus such as air fed helmet, I love mine.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Sherwin Williams DTM here. Never had a failure but I also let it dry thoroughly and only use HP cast vinyls.
Here's some Sherwin WIlliams DTM black on vertical grain redwood. The Gold is hp cast metallic vinyl applied to the black.
[ February 26, 2013, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by Shirley Carron (Member # 2446) on :
John, I've seen so many signs where after time, the background on MDO signs peels but the vinyl lettering still looks okay. This happens in particular to the pre-finished white MDO you can buy. Years ago I started buying MDO, unfinished and I cover it with vinyl, then letter as normal, The Vinyl outlasts the prefinish and the signs look good longer. Since the unfinished surface is kinda like paper the vinyl adheres well. No dry time. This works great until you need a background color that isn't on you vinyl color chart. Hope this helps.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
What about the edges of the MDO?
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Raymond..I always used "paintable" caulking on the edges, smoothed it with my finger. Then sprayed the surfaces and edges with automotive enamels.
As Joe says, if it stays good on vehicles it will stay good on sign backgrounds.
Spraying automotive paints, with or without "hardeners" isn't for the faint of heart, though, and should always be done with proper respiratoy protection.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
seems like you guys are using the words "acrylic" and "latex" interchangeably?
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
I'm not a Kent Smith by any stretch of the imagination but it seems that they are both the same thing - at least in a generic way. Acrylic is the resin in water based paint and the more acrylic that is used, the better the paint, and the higher the price. Not all "latex" paint uses 100% acrylic as a resin.
I can hear Kent snickering now over my explanation.
Posted by Gary Boros (Member # 8487) on :
Many of the latex paints have had additives in them such as silicone, which makes them incompatible with vinyl application. I use Benjamin Moore Aura paints almost exclusively now with great success. If you are going to use latex with vinyl, just be sure there are no incompatible additives.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
hummmmmm hows that work for automotive ACRYLIC ENAMEL????? or ACRYLIC LACQUERER???? acrylic car paint that can be used on a car including acrylic enamel, acrylic lacquer and acrylic urethane neither are water based. then you have "fine art" ACRYLIC PAINT that is used in place of oil paint??? my understanding is: ARCYLIC IS A WATER BASED additive, that can also be used in solvent vehicles. i know this because of my own experiments. i had some ACRYLIC ENAMLE CAR PAINT of a particular color. when i tryed to macth existing paint with it, it was not deep enough of the base color. the paint store was closed and the only pigment i had was some ACRYLIC PAINTS for doing paintings. so i took the cobalt blue(water based)windsor acrylic paint and added small quanities to the quart of blue i had and made the color deeper to match existing paint. the ACYCLIC PART of paint is what comes outa the color mix tubes.
Posted by Amy Brown (Member # 1963) on :
I don't know if it is available everywhere (I am in FL), but I swear by Coronado RustScat Acrylic Latex Enamel (semi-gloss as I hate gloss paint). It dries hard and not sticky. Vinyl will not come off. You do need to allow proper drying time.
Sherwin-Williams has their own version of acrylic latex enamel but it didn't seem to work the same. SW SuperPaint and Resilience have failed for me. They stay sticky and like Glenn, I have had problems with fast fading. It is also very rubbery and tends to bow boards when curing.
[ March 01, 2013, 08:23 AM: Message edited by: Amy Brown ]
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
OP asks some good questions, but I don't know the answers to them. I'll have to bow out to Kent. My response was just to the acrylic paints that I use - I don't have any experience with the automotive paints.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
There aren't many things I'd buy at WalMart. Their paint would be the last thing on my list.
If you do a a fair amount of painting, Mathews sometimes will foot the bill of getting a paint station in your shop(owned by PPG so it's very similar to their automotive paint) You just have to buy the paint. You can use it as single stage paint by adding their catalyst, or spray direct and clear coat. They have brushing and rolling additives, and with 16 basic colors you can make a LOT of colors. Their paint chip book looks like a PMS color chart.... it's big.
When it comes to latex, I mainly use Porter AgriShield.
[ March 01, 2013, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
automotive paints have been doing that for many years. in fact when i worked at NAPA, i setup a few body shops with a "consignment" paint mixing station. in the really old day it was mostly lacquer paint then it went to ACRYLIC ENAMEL AND NOW ITS ACRYLIC URETHANE. the paint manufacture provides the mixing colors, and you pay for the paint as you replace the mixing colors.
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