This probably sounds like the ramblings of an senile old man, but Humor me a little. In the fifty-plus years I've been in this business I've seen a lot of changes, and not all of them for the good. Most notably is the material we get today,... or more correctly the material we can't get today.
I usually get cranky as hell and throw a hissy fit when I go looking for something and find they don't make it anymore. As most of you well know, this usually happens right in the middle of a project when you don't have time to experiment with unfamiliar products.
I feel strongly that we all need to insure our future by keeping abreast of new products and trends in our industry. A good example is water base vs oil base enamel, a subject which appears in a lot of threads here on the Bullboard. At it's present state of development, I don't feel water base enamel is on a par with oil base products, and certainly not as good as the oil base paint we got twenty years ago. The facts of life however, is that it's just a matter of time until water base paint is the only thing we are going to be able to get. I'll keep on using 1-Shot and Chromatic as long as I can get it, but I've started experimenting with water base enamel so when the day finally comes, I'll know a little bit about what I'm working with.
The same thing is true with redwood vs HDU foam. 1-Shot doesn't make Liqui-Seal anymore. White lead was the best primer in the world. I cried when I couldn't get Tibbits-Western lettering white anymore. (Now there was a leaded product). I can't find zinc-chromate primer anymore. The MDO we get today is mostly crap. Try and buy a gallon of alkyd automotive enamel. The list is long. Even the cars we get today are half plastic.
We owe it to ourselves and our craft to stay abreast of the changes in our materials. Change is inevitable, but if we have already sorted through the options we are less apt to get caught with our pants down. Letterville is the perfect platform for us to share our experiences with replacement products.
Jerry Mathel Jerry Mathel Signs Grants Pass, Oregon signs@grantspass.com
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Posts: 916 | From: Grants Pass, OR USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Hi Jerry. I couldn't agree with you more. It probably won't be too long before some environmentally conscious and righteous individual comes up with a plausible sounding reason why MDO is harmful. The abrupt and sudden changes in this industry over the past decade alone should be a red flag warning that everything isn't gonna remain constant. Some changes are for the better, but with those changes, there's often a price to pay as well. This may mean the unavailability of some products or services that we've become accustomed to or dependant upon.
Incidentally, does anyone know of a supplier for " Marine Grade Plywood " ? They used to sell it for making boats, and the adhesive used was absolutely waterproof. This is not the pressure treated type, but rather fir plywood made specifically for marine use.I'd like to try an experiment using this and compare the exterior longevity vs MDO.
------------------ Ken Henry Henry & Henry Signs London, Ontario Canada (519) 439-1881 e-mail kjmlhenry@home.
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Good point, Jerry. We all have experienced the pain of discovering that certain products are no longer available, or that formulas for paint and other coatings change without warning. The whole issue of lead in paint has been a political game from the beginning, so the EPA can show evidence of how it is "protecting our children". Trouble is most of the kids who die from "lead poisoning" get it from bullets, not sign paint. Cigarettes kill thousands of people every year, but the addiction is too strong to break - not the smoker to tobacco, but the government addiction to tax money. If the cynical creeps who run this country could figure out how to tax lead paint like they tax tobacco, it would be available in any hardware store. It's not the lead that makes me sick, it's the hypocrisy and cynicism of our elected officials and their bureaucratic lapdogs.
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Jerry, Change is inevitable. The changing of sign technology should allow the sign artist to use products that are higher quality, and make things easier for us. However, the removal of dangerous products (lead)and materials has done just the opposite. We now have to use these new products, as you mentioned. I refuse to change. I still do things the old way without any problems yet. I still get reedwood, OneShot, and vinyl. I would be lost if they (government) removed these from our use. I have yet to use most of the new products, for one reason or another. Some things will never change. There will always be a brush with paint, screen with ink, and the same approach you've done for all these years. So really, nothing has changed. You are still the same person. You still create designs with that same "Ole Noodle".
"The more things change; the more they stay the same."
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Well, maybe the change is at least partially due to the fact that some of us (me included) are not stubborn enough to insist on using the same products. I have all but completely stopped using MDO, I think I've probably bought two sheets in the last five years. Where I used to use MDO, I now use alumalite, signboard, aluminum sheeting, PVC, FRP or RTG board. I've also gone from using one-shot on everything to almost exclusively vinyl.
Sorry for being part of the problem, but I actually like the new products. And not huffing paint fumes all day is also a pleasant experience!
That marine plywood was a nice material! (Waxing nostalgic.)
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Speaking of aging, I almost forgot about TWP! We used to mix the TWP with 1-Sot white 50-50. The 1-Shot was whiter, and the TWP covered well.
Have any of you tried the new MDO yet? Simpson is making this Simtech I think it might be called. It has the primer in the fiber overlay already. The primer is not sitting on the surface, but into the overlay, and the boards are ready for enamel. I have not bought any yet, but intend to this week.
I buy white lead when I can find it at yard sales, and add it to the paint for those special jobs that I want to last forever.
I can't buy mercury anymore either, they keep finding traces of tuna in it!
------------------ The SignShop Mendocino, California "Where the Redwoods meet the Surf"
Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Geez Jerry I thought for a minute there I was reading my own post.truth is I am unwilling to "give it up" aaand I keep finding othere ways to do things that don't include waterbased crap.Fortunately I'll probably be dead when they make the turn and none of the good stuff can be found anymore.Until then I have one tube of King Cole black left over from the old days what do you suppose thats worth?I fugure if you know about T.W.P.White you'll about King Cole. And another thing doesn't it piss you off to pay nearly fity bucks for Primed duraply and when you get it you have to use bondo on it just to make it good enuff to get by?
------------------ Monte Jumper SIGNLanguage/Norman.Okla.
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i got my 1st car 1962, it was a 50ford 4dr flathead 8 3 speed...85 hp. boy was that thing fast...hahahahaha i sanded and primed it with RED LEAD PRIMER IN 16 OR 20 oz spray cans...and a guy got me a gallon of that allkid black enamel....sprayed it and waited a week still would not dry...found out it was mixing black..with no "dryer" in it... hahahahahahaahah i got a 1/2pint can of king cole japan black...but timi got 1st dibs on it..
old paint joe
------------------ joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 6050 mobile hwy pensacola, fl 32526 850-944-5060
Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Anyone have any Liquiseal kicking around? And speaking of white lead, I know where to lay my hands on a couple of hundred-pound unopened kegs. (SSSHHH! Don't tell the EPA!)
------------------ "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)
Cam Finest Kind Signs 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988"
Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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