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Author Topic: any vinyl application tips?
Ricky Simpson
Visitor
Member # 1318

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Hello to all,

I am just beginning to learn how to apply vinyl. I have done some small jobs with the dry technique and cant seem to eliminate the air bubbles.

I have a van to do Saturday that has some 8 inch letters with one line of copy about 6 feet in length. I plan to try the wet method to try to eliminate the air bubbles. Any suggestions?.....should I use the "center hinge" or "top hinge" method.


Remember I am a beginner so ANY and ALL advice is certainly appreciated.


The layout will have 4 lines of copy.It is a "basic" one color job. I will be using 24" material and I can cut the first 2 lines of the layout at one time.....wondering if I should cut and apply those two lines of copy at the same time? (second line of copy is about 6 feet long)......hinge at the top or middle?.....I think I should use the wet method because I am having trouble with the dry method. What ya think?

Once again ANY suggestions are GREATLY appreciated!!!!


Blessings,
Ricky

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Ricky Simpson
Simpson Signs
South Central VA, USA
"railroader aspiring to be fulltime SignArtist."


Posts: 246 | From: VA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dave Grundy
Resident


Member # 103

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Ricky...If you are new to vinyl application I would suggest a couple of things. First of all, by all means use wet application, but I would recommend you use an application fluid that is formulated to do the job. RapidTac is my preference and they happen to advertise here too. Second, if you are hinging, I would use either a top or bottom hinge and then, once the hinge is in place, use a pair of scissors to cut between the letters so that you can apply one or two at a time. If you want to apply two rows of letters at once just find convenient spots where you can cut between the letters on the top and bottom row.

The GREATEST cause of bubbles is being too timid about applying enough pressure the first time the squeegie puts the vinyl down on the surface. Use lots of pressure.

If you do get bubbles, prick the larger ones and force the air out. The very tiny bubbles will disappear overnight or in a day or two. I know it doesn't look good to the customer if there are a few tiny bubbles in the job..but just reassure him that they WILL go away.

HAppy application!!!!

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Dave Grundy shop#340
AKA "applicator" on mIRC
"stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!"
in Granton, Ontario, Canada
1-519-225-2634
dave.grundy@odyssey.on.ca
www.odyssey.on.ca/~dave.grundy
"A PROUD $ supporter of the website"


[This message has been edited by Dave Grundy (edited March 21, 2000).]


Posts: 8875 | From: Chelem, Yucatan, Mexico/Hensall, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tom Rose
Resident


Member # 606

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Hi Ricky,

For your 8" letters, use top hinge method, as you gain experience you will probably do more end hinge method. I often do 6' lengths dry and end hinged.
I would seperate the lines you cut together, but only cut the application tape after you position and make alignment marks to line up the vinyl.
Another tip is to use a piece of card stock to align your lettering before applying it. Make marks on the card stock for the position desired ( using a level point on the vehicle as a starting point ) by using marks on the card stock rather than measuring with a tape, the is no chance of mis measuring.
Most bubbles go away in time and with sunshine on them.
These tips come from a sign artist aspiring to work on a railroad! ( I'm kidding )

------------------
Tom Rose
1938 Model Sign Dude
Proud to be a Letterhead Supplier ( Books & Videos )
T.Rose Signs Whitehall,PA
610-264-2541
E-mail tomrose@fast.net


Posts: 327 | From: Whitehall,PA,USA | Registered: Feb 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ricky Simpson
Visitor
Member # 1318

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Hey Dave and Tom,

Thanks a bunch for the tips !


and Tom I was beginning to wonder about you man, until I saw the "just kidding" remark.

been doing railroad maintenance for almost 22 years and this "58" model cant stand the heat and the cold like it use to, not to mention being burnt out on the work...

oh well, Lord willing one day full time signist(hmmmm never heard that one before, "the signist", thought I might have something there but sounds to "nasal"...hehehehe


thanks again Brothers of the Brush and the Sticky Stuff!!!


Blessings,
Ricky

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Ricky Simpson
Simpson Signs
South Central VA, USA
"railroader aspiring to be fulltime SignArtist."


Posts: 246 | From: VA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brad Farha
Visitor
Member # 931

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Ricky, what kind of van is it? As far as the application itself goes, the other guys gave you good advice, but for the actual placement of the lettering you want to be sure you get everything straight. One common mistake a lot of shops are making on these new aerodynamic vans is going by the wrong lines on the van for alignment - especially the Ford Econoline vans which are IMO the best looking vans, but the lines are not parallel on them. The middle two lines go uphill at slightly different rates (these are the ones most guys go by - a mistake) and the top line at the roof goes downhill. The right ones to go by are the lower lines that run between wheel wells - these are parallel with the ground and the job will look best if you use these as a guide.

Even if you are not doing a van like this, you will want to keep this in mind as you will be doing one sooner or later!

------------------
Brad Farha, owner
Farha Signs
Beckley, WV
304-252-3778

farhasigns@citynet.net


Posts: 981 | From: Beckley, WV | Registered: Jul 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
roger bailey
Merchant


Member # 556

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FIRST, if you use application fluid (not soap & water)you will be able to align graphic to marks (made earlier)without hinge system. If you choose the hinge system ,fine,you still shouldn't get bubbles. Cleaning the surface is "everything" don't clean with automotive solvents,household cleaners,window cleaners. Don't wipe with cloth rags or towels,industrial paper towels. clean only with the application fluid,and a "cheap" paper towel. this will help a lot! Now use fresh transfer tape and squeegee with lots a preasure.Remember transfer tape gets stickier as it ages!!
Roger

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Roger Bailey
Rapid Tac Incorporated
Merlin, OR


Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Adrienne Pereira
Visitor
Member # 1046

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Ricky,
As a beginner in the vinyl trade myself, i know these guys know what they are talking about!
I just finished my first big sign and it turned out great!! Thanks Dave and Roger for your help over the phone and the samples of Rapidtac worked great too!
I did what you said, Dave and everything went fine, hardly ANY bubbles and the customer was thrilled, I even threw in a couple of freebies I made from scraps left over from making their sign and they were so happy they offered us something to take with us from their cafe!
All round a good experience, now I'm excited about doing more, and Roger, I'll be putting in an order for a gallon of the stuff on Monday!!
Adrienne

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Adrienne Morgan
Splash Signs
www.splashsigns.com
"Rainkatt' on mirc chat

"Yeah, we paint that!"

836 B Southampton rd
#256
Benicia, CA 94510
707-550-4553 (vm)
adrienne@splashsigns.com



Posts: 4868 | From: Port Angeles, Washington, USA | Registered: Sep 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Joe Abner
Visitor
Member # 596

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Hi Ricky,

I too am a beginner… I did my first truck vinyl graphic job 2 weeks ago. I posted a similar question and received great advice from these guys! The job came out great. I did it wet. Not a single bubble! I used the top hinge and cut the lettering into smaller more manageable pieces. The only thing I can add here is to "take your time".
And again, make sure the graphics are aligned. Measure twice.

Good luck!
Joe

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Joe Abner
dba Talisman Signs
Middleboro, MA



Posts: 50 | From: Middleboro,Ma USA | Registered: Feb 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Moon
Visitor
Member # 452

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Nothing beats seeing these guys work in person... have ya been to a meet yet? Great fun and oodles of hands on help.
I was so fortunate to have been "adopted" by one of the Frogboys here in CA, BroFrog Rod Anton. He has shown me these tricks with vinyl and I have to say seeing what these guys are telling ya is priceless, IMO.

But, if you can't get that... the books are great too. I got "Vinyl Graphics How To" by Larry Mitchell when I bought Mike Stevens' book "Mastering Layout" (or was it when I subscribed to SignCraft? memory fails here, but I do know it was one or the other! ) ANYway, it's a good book and has pictures for the "reading the instructions" challanged! (That would be my husband-LOL)

I use a full hinge from the bottom so it can hang there until I'm ready to apply it instead of fighting to hold it up after taking the backing off, but I'm 5'6" 100 lbs and have arms made of toothpicks... this is probably not a problem for you, eh? I also prefer wet, but that again could just be me!

The feeling sassy towards the end there side of the Moon

------------------
The Moon
aka: Stefenie Harris
Moonlight Designs
Pollock Pines, CA
learnin' somethin' new every day!


Posts: 550 | From: Pollock Pines, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dave Grundy
Resident


Member # 103

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I'm with you Stef. I always hinge from the bottom if possible. Like you say I always worry about the stuff falling onto the surface prematurely when hinged from the top. Of course you can always just pull off enough backing to get started and the "folded back" backing paper will also hold the vinyl off the surface. But then I'm 6'2" and weigh 215 pounds with a nice beer belly!!!!

------------------
Dave Grundy shop#340
AKA "applicator" on mIRC
"stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!"
in Granton, Ontario, Canada
1-519-225-2634
dave.grundy@odyssey.on.ca
www.odyssey.on.ca/~dave.grundy
"A PROUD $ supporter of the website"



Posts: 8875 | From: Chelem, Yucatan, Mexico/Hensall, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carl Wood
Visitor
Member # 1223

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As you gain experience, and above all confidence, it will go easier. I did 3 trucks today, plus a sprint car. Did all dry application, after thourghly cleaning with the "Rapid Prep", (thanks Roger). Personally I like to tack my copy in place, (size doesn't matter), with small pieces of masking tape, cheap stuff will do, or use application tape in a pinch. Once you get it lined up, step back & check for "eye appeal". Adjust with a ruler if necessary. I like the center hinge method, tape top & bottom with 1 or 2" pieces of tape in the middle of the line of copy, if it's a long line I might put another piece on either end. Un-mask either side of your lettering, cut the backing paper off with a pair of scissors & squeegee hard. Repeat for the other half of you copy. Peel off the application tape, keeping it flat to the surface. You're done. As for rulers, for small stuff, my favorite is made by C-Thru, 18" white plastic Graphic arts ruler, so light you can hold in your teeth while you're working. Also, while your working, make sure your scissors & squeegee are within reach. Hardest part 'bout doing vehicles is the cleaning beforehand. Hope this might help - Carl

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Carl Wood
Olive Branch, Ms
Sonicob@aol.com


Posts: 1392 | From: Olive Branch,MS USA | Registered: Nov 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rich Stebbing
Visitor
Member # 368

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I just like to add to the above posts that if you need to use scissors near van be careful with the cutting edge that is against van or you may scratch van. We had an employee using a scissors as he was cutting apart sections of a large line of text taped to van that had a custom paint job with a clearcoat,...and yep he scratched the heck out the clear. Luckily a pro "detail guy" was able to buff out(whew), but it still cost $150 plus the labor lost, and redoing everything , not to mention the grief our customer experienced, which by the way he passed on to us. Til this day everytime I see John "Scissohands" we recant this story.

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Rich Stebbing #945
RichSigns
Rohnert Park CA


Posts: 755 | From: Rohnert Park, CA | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jack Davis
Visitor
Member # 1408

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Something that might simply help you to find an eye appealing centerline for text application, would be to tape a color string or similar at both ends and stand back to take a look. You can measure from that centerline. Sometimes you just have to average vehicle lines. If vehicle were designed by sign craftsmen they would all be like bread trucks I guess. Ha or HeHe, however it goes. Cheers Bronzeo....... p.s. I haven't did my first application yet either, so this is as much advice as I can offer. I have learned a lot on this thread also.....

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Jack Davis
1410 Main St
Joplin, MO 64801
bronzeo@prodigy.net
http://www.imagemakerart.com


Posts: 1549 | From: Joplin, MO | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
roger bailey
Merchant


Member # 556

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Just did a wet application on a 100 mph "river raceing boat" we sponcer 3 of these fantastic boats this year! Anyway,applied 16"x8" logo on top front deck, 2-8"x5" logos on either side in back,2 lines of text each,and 2-16"x8", with 2 lines of text on trailer. this was done(no hinges,no bubbles) inless then 30 minutes ,with no help!! Roger

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Roger Bailey
Rapid Tac Incorporated
Merlin, OR


Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ricky Simpson
Visitor
Member # 1318

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Hello and a GREAT BIG THANK YOU for all of you that responded with great tips and encouragement!!!

And also a BIG THANK YOU to Steve and Barb and all of you who support this site. I was lead to this site when pondering what kind of plotter/cutter to purchase. I am now becoming "offspring" of you that have "walked" where I want to "walk". Thanks again!

Which leads me to say this....I am not a resident but I knew from the beginning I WOULD be a resident it would only be a matter of "when". Well, thanks to a post from a sister of the trade "when" is now. Thanks Adrienne, and I hope others that havent, will realize what a "jewel" we have in this site and CERTAINLY Steve and Barb need our support not to mention how much we need each other for encouragement,etc.etc.etc.


No this place(BB) is not perfect but our world isnt either, BUT to those that WILL, can begin to make difference "here" as well as in the our world. Join me in being those that will.


As for me I need to begin by supporting this site....I too challenge any visitors who benefit from this site to support it so that it will continue to be here conveniently as it is now.


enuff said (for now anyway).

Thanks again and Blessings to all!
Ricky

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Ricky Simpson
Simpson Signs
South Central VA, USA
"railroader aspiring to be fulltime SignArtist."


Posts: 246 | From: VA | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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