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Do you have a Summa DC3? I'm looking at purchasing a new machine, and I've narrowed it down to this particular model. What do you all think? I don't do many large-format jobs, but do a lot of smaller-format (truck doors, etc.) jobs. I currently job-out these jobs, but I live 3 hours from the nearest city, so freight and delivery times must be taken into consideration.
Would love to hear from someone who actually has one of these machines!
Thanks, and have a happy day!
-------------------- Janet Bakewell One Sun Grafiks Inc. Slave Lake, AB Canada www.onesungrafiks.com Posts: 128 | From: Slave Lake, AB Canada | Registered: Apr 1999
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I highly recommend the Gerber Edge 1 or 2 over the DC3.
I know a guy who bought a DC3 and complained forever about working out banding problems....
Also, check the prices on consumables: foils of Edge vs DC3, etc.
The Edge also offers far more in-stock color foils...such as spot colors, specialty foils, etc.
The Gerber Edge panels large jobs flawlessly....and can handle most "door jobs" in a single application.
This is my opinion, as I occassionaley operate an Edge for a buddy of mine that has one. It has it's quirks like anything (mostly software related), but I can tell you from experience that for what you say you will be using it for...it's the ticket.
Check out ALL the angles between equipment b4 buying....there is a lot more to it than the cost of the hardware/software. Good luck and have a great holidy.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Before you make your final decision, I would strongly encourage you to visit the closest ND GRAPHICS branch (are you closer to Edmonton or Calgary?) and have a close look at all of the stuff that a Gerber EDGE (or EDGE2) can do for your customers. The DC3 is a nice machine, but nowhere near as versatile (by a long shot). The local ND GRAPHICS rep can also show you a selection of sales and marketing tools to help you be successful with your investment.
Good luck!
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Janet, I bought a Summa DC3 and love it over the Gerber Edge. Large prints, no banding, no changing foils, no changing machines to cut the contours. I also mostly do what you do, trucks Etc. I'm on my 2nd roll of vinyl now and find the other shops want me to print things over the size limits of the Edge. Most every job you do is on white vinyl anyway. Good luck John
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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I also bought the Summa 48" plotter at the same time. Saved $1000 that way.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
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Hi Janet, I too am looking at the DC3. I talked with Summa earlier today re: pricing, cost to operate, still waiting for a few other answers they are researching for me. Price is definetly a factor, but for me I like the fact that (in theory, of course) I can use the software I already have, rather than buying and learning something totally new. Keep me posted on your progress. Email me if you wish to compare notes. Jon, I have also been investigating the Gerber via ND. Thanks for your input. Sue
-------------------- Susan Banasky Source Signs Nanaimo, British Columbia sourcesigns@shaw.ca
When in need....go directly to the "Source"!
Proud Supporter of this "Knowledge Network"! Posts: 1323 | From: Nanaimo, B.C. Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
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Susan- what software are you using?- I understood that they had their own rip/cut software. The flexi-pro 7.5 lists drivers for the DC3, don't know any specifics. The DC3plus looks inviting. We have an edge that we could not do without- but wider would be better sometimes. Gene
posted
Thanks for considering Gerber/ND too, Susan (and I hope Janet).
In just a few short days, I will no longer be associated with ND GRAPHICS...but this is unlikely to change my point of view re the Gerber EDGE.
If I was planning to "take the plunge" into digital printing, the EDGE would definitely be my first investment. If I already owned a wide format printer for some reason, the EDGE would definitely be my next purchase.
Whatever you think you might be giving up in terms of print width, the EDGE makes up for it in versatility, dependability and ease-of-use (not to mention, plenty of large format work gets produced on the EDGE every day). The EDGE also gives you an extensive range of profitable products to sell to existing customers (a marketer's wet dream). It gives you a pallette of 3200+ SPOT colours to play with. I could go on and on (and have).
BTW - Both Flexi and Signlab are capable of driving the EDGE.
Good luck with your decisions!
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Thanks for all your input, everybody. I can always count on the Letterhead crowd to come through with great opinions.
I'm purchasing the DC3 Plus. I've talked to several people with Gerber machines (I'm currently jobbing out a lot of my work to a Gerber shop now), and a few with Summa machines (one with the new Summa DC3 Plus). 2 out of the 5 Gerber people are talking about "upgrading" to the new Summa DC3, so it's got to be good.
I owned a printing company, too, until last year, so I've got all the Corel Draw programs (It will print from Corel). I tried Flexi last year, but found it was trash... returned it. Still running Casmate for the cut program... having problems "letting go".
Sorry that I missed your meet this fall, Susan, but I hope it went well for you!
Apparently Summa has sold out of their first batch of machines, so I won't be able to get mine until the end of January or beginning of February. I'm very excited, but now have to find room in my house for a 500 lb. baby!
If you'd like to share information, my email address is admin@onesungrafiks.com.
Thanks again, everyone, Janet
-------------------- Janet Bakewell One Sun Grafiks Inc. Slave Lake, AB Canada www.onesungrafiks.com Posts: 128 | From: Slave Lake, AB Canada | Registered: Apr 1999
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quote: 2 out of the 5 Gerber people are talking about "upgrading" to the new Summa DC3, so it's got to be good.
Doesnt sound like great odds to me. 40%? hmmm It makes me wonder why anyone would want to limit themselves to such a small material availability and foil selection.
Thats like driving a car with a fixed steering wheel and only drive for a gear. But hey its got a wide wheel base.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:"hmmm It makes me wonder why anyone would want to limit themselves ..."
Based on the feedback I'm getting, the priciple buying decisions are based on, but not limited to:
Automation Price Size Service
Best Regards,
Jim
-------------------- Jim Doggett General Manager, USA Yellotools, Ltd www.yellotools.com Posts: 500 | From: Sherman, TX USA | Registered: Mar 2000
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Jim I agree there is a buyer for every machine, I know the DC3 wouldnt work for me and my needs as of yet. And looking at Janets needs I think her eyes might have been bigger than her stomach so to speak.
I do plenty of truck doors and never had the need for a single larger print, Most of the larger prints I do thermal technology would not be cost effective compared to Scoth print.
In this quickly changing and diverse market place I thrive on the ability to sell many many different products to my customers while utilizing one machine to do it. The vast selection of Foils like John mentioned is crutial to a detail oriented sign shop, not to mention the material selection.
I encourage the development of that end for Summa for with the Price and size, if they had the other then well how could one argue.
Automation is wonderful and the fact that the DC3 can hold more than one cartridge is fantastic. I still have a hard time with the machine doing one job or another at a time.
A printer and a cutter in one machine is like having 2 employees and only one desk for them to work at. Someone is going to be paid to stand around doing nothing while the other does his job.
And lastly to do large format prints on the edge requires a "seam" Oh my! is that a SEAM? haha just kidding I do laugh at the resistance to panel.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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How very nice to see your smilin' face around town! seems like it's been a while. Drop me a line some time and let me know how life is treating you.
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I'd be with Bob for now....simply compare AVAILABLE color foil cartridges between the Edge and the DC3....that alone would guide me to the Edge.
Now, if the DC3 had gobs of in-stock, ready-to-ship foils comparable to the Edge, then I would take a different viewpoint.
Also...how much do DC3 foils cost compared to Gerber Foils, Duracoat Foils, and 9 Foils?? What's the cost comparison per square foot?
Also worth checking out is stated print head lifespan, print head replacement cost, etc.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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I spend a lot of money on decals that I have to job out because I don't have the machine for it. I only require a machine larger than a Gerber for about 8-10 jobs a year... which is probably close to 1/2 of my expenditure... they're big jobs - $2 - $3000.
Pretty much anything that I can do in my shop is cost-effective, and time-effective, considering the alternative is at least 3 hours away. Overnight by courier, if my supplier will print the job immediately on receiving the email.
Bob mentioned, "A printer and a cutter in one machine is like having 2 employees and only one desk for them to work at. Someone is going to be paid to stand around doing nothing while the other does his job." I sold one of my companies last year, got rid of ALL my employees, bought a huge house, and moved the remainder of my business into it. From what I understand, the Summa doesn't need any babysitting, so once I load it, and send it my artwork, my time's free to work on other projects or work with my old cutter. From my perspective, I'm gaining another employee that is reliable and doesn't talk back!!! Yup, I wish the Summa had more spot colors, as I'm kind of a fan of them... although just about everyone I've talked to with a Summa uses, for the most part, only the CMYK colors. Thanks, Todd for your comments about the print heads - I've checked them out on other machines, but completely skipped that with the Summa. Thanks again for everyone's comments, your feedback is appreciated. Have a great Christmas!!!
-------------------- Janet Bakewell One Sun Grafiks Inc. Slave Lake, AB Canada www.onesungrafiks.com Posts: 128 | From: Slave Lake, AB Canada | Registered: Apr 1999
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Gene, to answer your question...I use Corel Draw and SignLab software. DC3 comes with Color Control Rip Softwaare and opens all eps files. The part I do not like is the 'Dongle' I like to move my systems around and hate crawling under my desk all the time to change this and that. Also for us Canadians, the price of duty can be a killer as this machine originates from Belgium. Just some things to consider......have a great day.
-------------------- Susan Banasky Source Signs Nanaimo, British Columbia sourcesigns@shaw.ca
When in need....go directly to the "Source"!
Proud Supporter of this "Knowledge Network"! Posts: 1323 | From: Nanaimo, B.C. Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
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If it is mostly cmyk your looking to produce, then why think of thermal?
I hear through the grape vine the big "G" is bringing to market just after christmas a 6 color inkjet with 3 year outdoor durability unlaminated running about .35 cents a square foot cost to run. Not to mention Greater DPI, and ... ( dont quote me on this ) I beleive it is wider than the DC3, also comes in 2 sizes.
Let me explain a bit further the 2 employee one standing around analogy, If your printer is cutting then it isnt printing, I can be cutting a job and printing another at the same time, Mostly unattended, the only time you have to touch the machine is to change catridges, and at the gerbers speed that aint squat.
Whatever you decide, I wish you great luck and profitability in your new venture.
[ December 19, 2003, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I hear you on the dongle thing. You can get a software workaround for the dongle for about $350 US. The guy is a Canadian, and guarantee's his software will work...and it does. You can store your dongle in a safe for safe-keeping and eliminate the hassle of crawling around under your desk to move the dongle from one machine to the next.
I can get you his name if you'd like. Although some find this controversial, I read enough to believe it's perfectly legal and legitimate. It will free up a USB port, and keep you from scraping your knees and banging your head under the desk.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Just a quick note, Susan... Corbin's Graphic Supplies in Edmonton, AB is selling the DC3 Plus for $24,997 CDN until the end of the month. If you want their number, let me know.
Bob... I love spot colors, so I'll use a combination of CMYK and spot when Summa can't provide the spot colors. Also, there's a five year outdoor life guarantee if you use their products.
I can see where this board could become very addictive... I haven't started work before 10 am for the last week. Bad, bad Janet.
-------------------- Janet Bakewell One Sun Grafiks Inc. Slave Lake, AB Canada www.onesungrafiks.com Posts: 128 | From: Slave Lake, AB Canada | Registered: Apr 1999
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Like Bob (and I'm sure the others) I wish you well regardless of the machine that you purchase.
Isn't it possible that SUMMA users print mostly with CMYK because they don't have alot of choice in the matter?
If I may suggest, pop over to 4EDGEtalk.com to ask some Gerber EDGE users these questions:
What percentage of their work is in SPOT colour vs process
How valuable the Gerber Spectratone system for precisely matching 3200+ colours is to them (and to their customers)
How many would give up (or have given up) their EDGE in trade for ANY wide format printer. A couple of the people you've spoken to may be considering it, but if they consider the pro's and con's carefully...I personally doubt that any will actually do so.
Also, some considerations:
Printing process colour matches costs about 4x what a single spot colour costs (or still roughly twice the cost of printing colour matches using two spot colours using Gerber Spectratone).
The range of maeterials that you can print on a DC3 is quite limited and quite expensive compared to a Gerber EDGE...worth investigating before you put your money down.
The reality is that no single printer is the perfect solution for everything...they all have their pro's and con's. I would recommend planning beyond simply this equipment purchase...by starting (for example) with a Gerber EDGE today; with plans to invest in a wider format machine down the line.
Following this line of thought, the many strengths of the EDGE will be of greater advantage in developing new business with existing clients (better potential for faster Return On Investment)...while -- in the short-term -- you continue to outsource the 8-10 wide format jobs you do per year. When you've achieved ROI, re-invest in something wider -- like a DC3 or a Gerber MAXX2 -- or whatever offers the best solution for fulfilling the needs of your clients.
[ December 19, 2003, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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![[Dunno]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
But hey its got a wide wheel base.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Oh my! is that a SEAM? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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