posted
Okay, so I hired a electrician to do some work. Over the phone I was quoted a hourly rate of $90.00 per hour. Two guys came out, one was an apprentice. They worked for 6 hours. I was billed for 12 hours at $90.00 per hour. They forgot to tell me that the $90 per hour was for each guy. This is a poll on who is right. The lady who I spoke to at the electrician's office (face to face)said "Everybody knows that the hourly rate is per person" I told her that, that wasn't the price I had aggreed to over the phone and I wan't going to pay it.. Yada, yada, yada, she told me if I was going to be (s)hitty with her the bill will go into collections.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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I hate to be the one to say this, but "hourly rate" IS "per man hour". If there were 5 men it would have been 5 times the time spent. The theory is that 1 man would have spent at least twice as much time, and probably more, therefore they saved you money by sending 2 men. Sorry, but I have to agree with her, even though I like you a lot more than her.
-------------------- Don Hulsey Strokes by DON signs Utica, KY 270-275-9552 sbdsigns@aol.com
I've always been crazy... but it's kept me from going insane. Posts: 2273 | From: Utica, KY U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 1999
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and i will 2nd that. 1 guy $90, 2 guys $180.00. these guys aint cheap. I replaced the complete service breaker panel in this house. the panel and breakers was over $200. i had a friend who worked as an electrician for a few years...........come over and it was a 8 hours........to R & R the the box. if i woulda had a electrician do this.....it woulda been over $1500. just for the install. had all the plumbing lines replaced under the house, $2200.00
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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So what you are saying is that if I see a sign at a body shop, auto mechanic or other service related industry and the sign reads "$90.00 per hour" I have to assume that it is per person working on my job. So if a mechanic suddenly needs another person to help him with something, they just add on the hours. So therefore, if I am told a job will take four hours, I have no way of knowing how many people will be working on my job. If I ran my business like that,,,,,,,, See what I mean, trickery in wording. Why does it have to be like that? The person on the phone or the sign on the wall should clearly state that the shop rate is $90.00 per employee. One thing I did learn is to first get a quote in writing, not over the phone.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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Sorry this happened to you Alicia, but the others are right. Many industries operate where one man is working like in the auto repair business. But in the case of electricians, plumbers, carpenters where many people are working it would have to be per person. What I don't agree with is that the apprentice's time is being billed at the same rate as the master electrician. When I had employees, my shop rate was $60.00 an hour. I billed my employees time at $40 an hour. So on an install I wold tell my customer that the install was 2 people at $100 an hour for the two of us.
One fall my furnace would not ignite. I called a furnace repair guy and he came out with a new hire in training. He stood there and BS'd with me while his helper cleared out the wasp nest that was in the exhaust vent pipe. He billed me $180, one hour minimum at $90 an hour for both guys!!! It was a one man job!!!! I paid the bill but sent a letter with the check that billing me for his training time while he did nothing was ridiculous and unless he adjusted the bill for one man I would never do business with him again. He took the full payment and I've never heard from him again.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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auto industry pay scale is a whole different matter. a one man shop.........will chage you according to the work he has done. dealerships and large shops use what is called MITCHELL'S time/flat rate scale. its big book of every conceivable auto/truck repair.....and the time it takes to complete R & R and back out the shop door. NOW THESE ARE HOURLY RATES........for the shop.........the mechanic gets a portion of that.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm with Alicia...if I'm told it's $90 an hr.... then it's $90 an hr period unless I'm informed that it could be more than what was quoted...I don 't like people who are not upfront with me...I' m with Alicia...I wouldn't pay.
posted
So basicly what you are saying is that when I call a electrician and the person on the phone says that their hourly rate is $90.00 per hour, but that if two persons show up for the job, I must now pay $180.00 per hour? What if three people show up, do I then pay $270.00 per hour. At what point does the customer have control to keep the job within their budget? I was not in any way told that it was to be per man hour.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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Well they definitely are short on a proper explanation. There is no difference if one man will require 4 hours to do a job than if two men show up and complete it in half the time. But this should have been explained to you and they should have given some kind of estimate as to how long the job would take. I still think they are wrong though in charging master electrician wages for an apprentice. Good luck fighting them.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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HOURLY RATE IS THE SHOP HOURLY RATE, OR, THEIR BILLING HOURS, AS AN ENTITY.......I DON'T CARE HOW MANY PEOPLE THE SHOP OWNER SENDS TO ACCOMPLISH THE JOB......THAT IS UP TO THE OWNER.... THE PEOPLE THAT HE OR SHE SENDS TO PERFORM THE JOB ARE REPRESENTING THE FRIKING SHOP, IN FRONT OF THE CUSTOMER. THEY ARE NOT REPRESENTING THEMSELVES, INDIVIDUALLY.
BY THE WAY, THIS IS USUALLY POSTED, IN WRITING, IN A VERY VISIBLE PLACE OF THE SHOP, FOR THE PROSPECTED CUSTOMERS TO SEE.
ANYTHING ELSE, IS BULL **** !
IF THE SHOP SENDS A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN, TO WHOM THEY PAY A TOP SALARY, AS SUCH, I AM SURE THAT THEY WILL NOT BE PAYING THE SAME SALARY TO AN APPRENTICE OR THE HELPER WHO CARRIES THE LADDERS AND THE EQUIPMENT OR, MAYBE, THE DRIVER.
IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY !
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A TACIT UNDERSTANDING, UNLESS IT IS CLEARLY EXPLAINED, TO THE CUSTOMER, AND THE CUSTOMER AGREES TO IT, IN WRITING.
posted
When I went to their office to speak to them about the invoice,I was able to get did get a recording of the receptionist/front desk lady telling me the person who I spoke to on the phone was a trainee. And that she had given me the wrong price. "Ball in my court!"
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3812 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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I spoke with a friend who owns a mechanical contracting business. He said their fees are based on "man hours". On their quotes, this is clearly stated. The quote provides the estimated "man-hours" and that if it takes more time than anticipated, the reasons are to be clearly stated and the client has to sign off on any additional time.
He said that usually they come under the anticipated time however there have been times when they ran into issues out of their control. He said that he makes it a point to make sure the client is as informed as reasonably possible.
As for my own shop, we bill out at $75 per man-hour. For any business to become successful and remain that way, it has to know it's numbers and effectively communicate with the client.
[ September 05, 2016, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
posted
Around here electricians charge $100 for the service call, plus $90 per man hour. The average electrician makes $15 - $25 per hour. It's all about overhead and profit. If you run the numbers right, there is not all that much profit in this pricing.
-------------------- Don Hulsey Strokes by DON signs Utica, KY 270-275-9552 sbdsigns@aol.com
I've always been crazy... but it's kept me from going insane. Posts: 2273 | From: Utica, KY U.S.A. | Registered: Jan 1999
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posted
Man hours here in Michigan. I hire electricians to do sign work, its per man, per hour. I know its tough, but a fact. Be sure you follow suit when doing a time & material job.
On the plus side, my electrical guys always hire me to do their trucks, cards, etc. Their good appearance on my jobsites is always a plus because their equipment is state of the art, and helps them be safe and fast.
[ September 06, 2016, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3484 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
One of my best friends is an electrician. I told him your dilemma - but he said he would like to know specifically what work you had done - because it might've been handled by only one guy.
His rate is $40 an hour. He does all the electrical himself and pays a 'gopher' hand $9 which he adds to the customers bill, plus materials.
He is a sole owner/operator & has been in electrical work all his life. He has been recently called for second quotes on 3 particular jobs where the big, fancy name-brand electric service company lied about the customers needs and/or inflated the quote!
Next time you need a good electrician, shop around and try to find the old experienced guy in a simple truck. He may not even,be listed in the phone book - but he comes highly recommended and will be glad to provide you with references to his honesty & quality of work.
I'm not talkin' about the jack-leg alcohoic 'painter-electrician-carpenter 'unprofessional' type altho, honestly, many of them do great work.
But the best home maintenance people are not always the big ad, nice service truck guys. Often, they're just one old guy with an electrical license and a truck full of tools who is honest & dependable.
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