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Now days with all the stupid EPA regulations on getting good paint...What is a good durable background paint for a Sign using Plywood MDO board for outdoor elements?
Is somekind of water base paint better for weather expanding and shrinking of the wood causing the enamel paint to peel and crack.
I know on House painting of wood trim etc, water base paint doesnt peel and crack like the enamel house paint
I was going to try and ship some Ronan quick dry background enamel from Rayco. But is there a better cheaper option I might find local in So Cal ? Water based enamel...Aquacote, Latex or acrylic waterbase enamal etc ?
Rick
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[ June 01, 2016, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Rick B ]
-------------------- Rick Bowerman Posts: 79 | From: Wildomar, Ca | Registered: May 2012
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i used mostly AUTOMOTIVE ACRYLIC ENAMEL sprayed 3 coats........i would go to auto paint store and buy the "mismatched" paint....it was mixed to mactch a certain color....but did hit it exactly......so they sell it at a discount. basically same paint you put on a vehicle......need to paint outside....hour or 2 you can paint on it.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I may be wrong, Joe, but I don't think they're allowed to sell acrylic enamel in California anymore.
I've been using Acrylic Porch and Floor enamel on a bit of my stuff like this. It seems tougher than regular acrylic; seems to dry pretty smooth, and has a nice gloss. Good color selection too.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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dale didyou ever try NAM-A-LAC products? mobile paint company makes it. i used it for backgrounds it was a lot like 1-SHOT ......... https://www.blpmobilepaint.com
[ June 01, 2016, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yep, stupid calif made good ol' auto acrylic enamel illegal. I painted several cars with it 30+ year ago
"Acrylic Porch and Floor enamel" what brand? stuff from home depot? Maybe some Dunn Edwards house paint store stuff
P.S. I IIRC reading that house paint water soluble acrylic enamel has some mold inhibitor stuff in it and your lettering enamel wont stick good on top of it or something like that
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[ June 01, 2016, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Rick B ]
-------------------- Rick Bowerman Posts: 79 | From: Wildomar, Ca | Registered: May 2012
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rick iam sure you can buy paint form BLP but would be shipping involved. their ACR-A=LAC is a water based..........or buy some KYRLON IN QUARTS......i got 2 qts of white interior/exterior....on the clearance shelf at wally world......$2 a qt!!!! KRYLON, RUSTOLEUM, both great for outdoors....
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I used to use the standard oil based enamels for years (One Shot, Ronan, etc). About 15 years ago, I switched to latex based paints and have not looked back.
The water based paints last much longer then the oil based ever did, and much nicer to work with.
The gloss water based paints do better then the satins, or flats.
Good luck.
Peace, Bob
-------------------- "The 3-4 minute mark of "Freewill" by Rush.
Bob Kaschak Artisan Sign And Design Peru New York Posts: 1873 | From: Upstate NY | Registered: Jul 2002
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if your stickin vinyl to it..........HIGH GLOSS is the way to go. the satin/semi gloss(a flattening agent is added)....causes the adhesive not to "bite" and hold well.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Here in Southern California I have been using Zinsser 123 plus Bullseye water base primer. It's also good for redwood and cedar. It sands well if you need to unlike some that seem rubbery and never harden. For the finish I usually use Frazee Mirro-Glide gloss. I have used other good quality 100% acrylics with good results. I can have it mixed in just about any color. I sometimes use Ronan AquaCote but I need to mix the color myself if it's not a stock color. I use Ronan if I hand letter. I have not used oil base paint in 20 years. My signs last well.
Hey Bob, I already primed my cut out new MDO plywood with Rustoleum White Primer oil base.
Can I paint on top of that oil base primer with a good Latex Acrylic Enamel? Im not absolutly sure, I think I can ? ? ?
I know I did it on House trim a few years ago. Oil base primer over old blistered oil base gloss(so it bites to the old paint), Then latex acrylic gloss over that oil base primer (knowledgeable guy at the Dunn Edwards Paint store told me to do it that way and explained why)
This is for background for oneshot lettering enamel , no vinyl.
3'x4' HotRod shop outdoor sign
Rick
[ June 02, 2016, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: Rick B ]
-------------------- Rick Bowerman Posts: 79 | From: Wildomar, Ca | Registered: May 2012
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on bare wood......i prefer OIL BASED PRIMERS. coating over it with latex or oil base dont matter. its what is contacting the BARE SURFACE that in important. when i would se automotive a/e....i still primed with oil based KILZ.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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isnt that what i said????????? water based paints......NEVER BOND TO WOOD GRAIN, it sits on it.........OIL PENETRATES WOOD FIBER, FORMING A BOND with th oil embedded in the wood fiber........NOW it dont matter what the next paint you apply..........latex/oil/urathane/A/E....those painTs will adhere to the OIL BASED PAINT
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Make sure you seal your edges with epoxy. I use West system epoxy and add their fairing compound until it is the thickness of peanut butter. I sand it lightly before applying primer. If you don't seal the edges well, your outdoor signs will start to delaminate in 2-3 years. I also paint the edges every time I paint the face and back. Doing this, I have outdoor MDO signs that are18-23 years old that haven't started to delaminate yet.
Diane
-------------------- Balch Signs 1045 Raymond Rd Malta, NY 12020 518 885-9899 signs@balchsigns.com http://www.balchsigns.com Posts: 1695 | From: MaltaNY | Registered: Jan 2000
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I use water based primer and water based latex enamel right over it.
You will be fine with water based paint over an oil based primer.
Another method of sealing the edges is with a simple thin coat of latex caulking (lay a thin bead and smooth with a wet finger. Seals the edges well and looks nice and smooth.
Peace, Bob
-------------------- "The 3-4 minute mark of "Freewill" by Rush.
Bob Kaschak Artisan Sign And Design Peru New York Posts: 1873 | From: Upstate NY | Registered: Jul 2002
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Yes I use latex caulk on the edges mostly where there are voids.
I did first coat of using Rustoleum acrylic latex. I used those small diameter foam roller. You cant keep on going over it with the roller much like you can with Oil base. I found out ya gotta get it on there with minimal rolling. Its 100 degrees today, drys fast. Next coat Ill do at night when its cooler. Acrylic latex didnt get a nice gloss shine like oil base
I called Dunn Edwards. Fairly... knowledgeable guy. Next time Im in town might get their brand Acrylic latex gloss.
Any tips on applying acrylic latex using a foam roller so it flows out smooth afterward ? Maybe the weather was too hot today for a nice coat
[ June 03, 2016, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Rick B ]
-------------------- Rick Bowerman Posts: 79 | From: Wildomar, Ca | Registered: May 2012
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Well I had to sand this first coat to get a smooth surface again. Thinned the second coat, same thing. Looks terrible using a foam roller, drys to fast and wont flow out smooth
Im switching back to alkyd oil enamel that flows out, smooth, and gloss
-------------------- Rick Bowerman Posts: 79 | From: Wildomar, Ca | Registered: May 2012
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When I first tried water based paints I hated it, was sure it would never work. Now I would never go back. I think nap rollers are better for water base. You won't get quite the smooth finish and gloss of oil base. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
-------------------- Chuck Peterson Designs San Diego, CA Posts: 1050 | From: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I find the gloss on oil base is gone fairly quickly anyway. They make Flotrol for water based paints. Breaks the surface tension. I found it helps but foam rollers suck because they introduce air bubbles that don't break so easily like with oil based paints. A high quality nap roller, and minimal rolling should achieve a nice smooth finish. Always use a piece of scrap vinyl before you start painting. Run the roller over the sticky side to remove any loose fibers, and never try to use the same roller by wrapping it in cling wrap and putting it in the fridge for the second coat. The paint thickens just enough to pull fibers off the roller like crazy. Don't ask me how I know this.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Like Dave S. said, a good quality roller helps. Here's another trick that sometimes helps, if you have a big brush that you can wash easily: roll the paint on, not the whole board, maybe 4-8 square feet, and go over the surface lightly with the brush. Sometimes this lays paint out nicely, but faster than brush alone.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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